Deja Vu CDs

Just what the name says.
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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 pm

Something like that, yeah. I seem to recall some special symbol in the dead wax or something. I never paid all that much attention to it.

Interesting. Maybe I should find that one or something.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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dudelsack
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Postby dudelsack » Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:37 pm

The pre-remaster Atlantic Deja Vu is very nice. Kills the remaster. I've heard there are two variants of pre-remasters, though - mine is made in WG and has some noticable dropouts, if that bothers anyone.

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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:39 pm

How does it kill the remaster, exactly? The clip from Carry On that Ryan sent me wasn't that different at all from the remaster.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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dudelsack
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Postby dudelsack » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:58 pm

A. No no-noise.
B. Not nearly as bright.
C. Snares sound like snares instead of some kind of special effect.
D. Acoustic gits sound real instead of etched.
E. Part and parcel with A-D, the recording breathes nicely on the older disc, and doesn't on the newer.

That's just off the top of my head - I don't have the remaster any more, but those were my thoughts when I compared before dumping the Gastwirt...

YMMV, of course.

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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:19 pm

Well, like I pointed out earlier, the remaster doesn't actually seem to have any noise reduction. It matches up fairly closely with both that "killer" LP copy and the older CD, both in terms of hiss and EQ. I didn't notice any significant differences in brightness.

Want some clips or something?
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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dudelsack
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Postby dudelsack » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:25 pm

Sure, if you've got 'em handy...Carry On and Helpless probably will do.

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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:29 pm

I'll see if I can get to that tonight. I can do clips from that LP dub, too.

Ryan, want to make some clips of your CD? Intros perhaps?
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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dudelsack
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Postby dudelsack » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:36 pm

I've got the favored LP pressing (Specialty 80's press), FWIW, but if you want to make it easier for everyone that's cool too.

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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:26 pm

Here's what I've got:

80's LP (I seem to recall something about a "wine glass" in the dead wax, but I just have a CD-R)
Gastwirt remaster - Atlantic 82649-2, "RE-1 SRC##01" in the inner ring
Japanese HDCD - Atlantic AMCY-2726 (CD-R - watch out for that extra dB @ 10k)

Note that the LP is lower in level than the other two. Carry On is about 3 dB lower on that one. Not sure about the other 2.

Carry On
LP
Remaster
HDCD

Helpless
LP
Remaster
HDCD

Everybody I Love You
LP
Remaster
HDCD

The HDCD disc obviously has the high end jacked up. I'd say the LP is a wee bit brighter than the remaster, but other than that, I don't hear any major differences, especially in terms of hiss.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby stinsojd » Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:44 am

I agree that the LP is a tad brighter than the remaster, but it also sounds slightly narrowed - at least to my ears. There's definitely *something* different. The stereo image seems a little wider on the LP. Then again, maybe it's just the sprinkle of extra high end that I like - I'm a recovering trebleholic.

I loaded these into a playlist where I could jump back and forth very quickly, and - on headphones - I'd give the nod to the LP. I think if I were casually listening on speakers I probably wouldn't notice that much difference. I definitely won't be looking to buy the HDCD version - that's for sure.

Thanks for posting these samples, Luke. I have the CD edition that immediately preceded the Gastwirt remaster. If no one beats me to it, I'll send you some equivalent samples from that CD just for an additional comparison - if you'd like.

Jamie

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dudelsack
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Postby dudelsack » Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:12 am

Luke, your TT is running something like a half step slow as compared to the CD remaster and my non-remaster.

To me, the remaster sounds congested and over-eq'ed at the beginning of "Carry On" - listen to the acoustic guitars, which are bright and forward. This is not as much the case with the LP as far as I can tell, and definitely not the case with the non-remastered CD.

On "Everybody," the remaster's bass doesn't sound like a bass...sounds shaved somehow. Plus they jacked the treble to make the guitars sound extra crunchy.

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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:04 pm

Not my TT, FWIW.

Keep in mind the intro to Carry On (before the bass comes in) is narrowed on the remaster. It isn't on the LP or HDCD. It widens back up at that point.

I'm not saying the remaster is best, just that the noise reduction claims seem to be unfounded.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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dudelsack
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Postby dudelsack » Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:37 pm

Well, yes, there appears to be hiss present on the remaster (I'll provisionally withdraw my claim that NR was used, and blame my faulty memory). It's less hissy than the non-remaster for sure. I don't know what conclusion to draw from that, however, without knowing what tape gens were used for what.

Andreas
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Postby Andreas » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:29 am

I finally got a chance to require an older Deja Vu CD. It is a German pressing with the catalog numbers SD 19118-2 and Europe: 250001.

It beats the Joe Gastwirt remaster in every way:
More open sounding, no narrowing of the stereo image, more natural hiss. Also, surprisingly, more clarity without being louder or brighter. All the faults of the Gastwirt remaster that I always attributed to the deficient master tape (muddiness, muted high end, weak bass) are gone.

I am now pretty sure that the Gastwirt remaster has some noise reduction. Every song has less hiss than the older CD. Admittedly, the hiss is still audible, but much reduced. But in the same way, the high end and the clarity of the lower midrange are reduced. This is not a case where a better tape has been used with less hiss. Because in that case, I would be able to hear the instruments clearer, which I cannot.

There are no scientific proofs to be expected, but something has definitely been done in the remastering, and it did not help the sound.

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Postby lukpac » Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:25 pm

Andreas wrote:More open sounding, no narrowing of the stereo image, more natural hiss.


AFAIK the only narrowing is the intro to Carry On. At least that's all I've noticed so far.

I am now pretty sure that the Gastwirt remaster has some noise reduction. Every song has less hiss than the older CD. Admittedly, the hiss is still audible, but much reduced. But in the same way, the high end and the clarity of the lower midrange are reduced. This is not a case where a better tape has been used with less hiss. Because in that case, I would be able to hear the instruments clearer, which I cannot.


Since the hiss levels of the remaster match fairly closely to those of the "good" CD and the "good" LP, I think it's pretty safe to say NR wasn't used (unless we are to assume NR was used on both of those as well). More hiss on another CD would seem to be the result of a different tape, different EQ or both.

There are no scientific proofs to be expected, but something has definitely been done in the remastering, and it did not help the sound.


I don't disagree with that statement. It does seem like the high end is a bit rolled off, for starters.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD