Debate 9/30

[Rspaight]

One sentence now, more later:

I am immensely, profoundly depressed by the knowledge that after watching tonight's debate, half the country will still support Bush.

Ryan

[Patrick M]

Still, I don't think Kerry came off great.

[lukpac]

I only got 2/3 of it on the radio (saw the rest on TV), but I actually thought Kerry came off really good, especially in comparison to Bush, who really seemed flustered to me.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

Bush would lose a debate with Brian Wilson. And that's saying something.

[Gee Oh Are Tea]

Commenting from Canada: if Americans re-elect that stammering, twanging dufus (who really loooked a lot like Alfred E Neumann tonight), then God help you all. Yet on some of the "post-game analysis" there were still people saying that "President Bush looked like the person to protect us". Y'all just don't get it.

Without the use of a teleprompter, Bush really showed what an idiot he is. The man cannot string a coherent thought together. OK, I'm aware that a lot of Americans simply aren't that bright but surely so-called educated (albeit right-wing) journalists will have a hard time defending that performance tonight, won't they??

I hate to say it but I believe Bush wins on November 2 and I don't know what's in store for the next four years ......

Cliff

[Patrick M]

I hate to say it but I believe Bush wins on November 2 and I don't know what's in store for the next four years ......

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.

Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.

Homer: Thank you dear.

Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.

Homer: Oh, how does it work?

Lisa: It doesn't work.

Homer: Uh-huh.

Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.

Homer: Uh-huh.

Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?

Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

[Rspaight]

I have become absolutely fascinated with the almost-hypnotic quality of Bush's stammering, repetitive, inarticulate speaking style. Instead of the normal "No Extraneous Words(tm)" summary, I've condensed Bush's main talking points into an easy-to-read format:

JOHN KERRY, FLIP-FLOPPER:

Background: John Kerry's position on Iraq is that Saddam was a threat, the President needed the authorization to use force in order to negotiate from a position of strength, but the President failed to live up to his pledge to exhaust all peaceful and multilateral solutions before launching an America-dominated war, and failed to adequately plan for post-war scenarios. In what way is this a flip-flop?

My opponent looked at the same intelligence I looked at and declared in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was a grave threat.
He also said in December of 2003 that anyone who doubts that the world is safer without Saddam Hussein does not have the judgment to be president.
I don't think he was misleading when he called Iraq a grave threat in the fall of 2002.
I don't think he was misleading when he said that it was right to disarm Iraq in the spring of 2003.
I don't think he misled you when he said that, you know, anyone who doubted whether the world was better off without Saddam Hussein in power didn't have the judgment to be president. I don't think he was misleading.
keep changing your positions on this war
his positions change
core convictions keep changing
denigrates the contributions
denigrate the contributions
send mixed signals
send mixed signals
voted against the $87-billion
said he actually did vote for it before he voted against it.
The only consistent about my opponent's position is that he's been inconsistent.
He changes positions.
change positions
changes positions
changes positions on something as fundamental as what you believe in your core, in your heart of hearts, is right in Iraq
send mixed messages
Mixed messages
Mixed messages
Mixed messages
change my core values
mixed signals
mixed messages
keep changing positions

FREUDIAN SLIPS:

Of course we're after Saddam Hussein -- I mean bin Laden.

BUSH ON WHAT WENT WRONG IN IRAQ:

No, what I said was that, because we achieved such a rapid victory, more of the Saddam loyalists were around. I mean, we thought we'd whip more of them going in.

BUSH ON KERRY'S VIEW OF THE WAR:

wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place
wrong war, wrong time, wrong place
wrong war, wrong place, wrong time
"Please join us in Iraq. We're a grand diversion. Join us for a war that is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time?"
They're not going to follow somebody who says, "This is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time."
wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time
the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place
grand diversion
grand diversion

BUSH'S HOMELAND SECURITY STRATEGY:

multi-pronged
a multi-prong strategy to make the country safer
keep our country safer
America and the world are safer
We have a duty to protect our children and grandchildren.
I wake up every day thinking about how best to protect America. That's my job.
I work with Director Mueller of the FBI; comes in my office when I'm in Washington every morning, talking about how to protect us.

BUSH'S REACTION TO HIS JOB:

I made some tough decisions.
tough
It's hard work.
It's incredibly hard.
a lot of really good people working hard
It's hard work.
It's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I see on the TV screens how hard it is.
the hard work
It is hard work.
It is hard work
It's hard work
it's hard work
a lot of hard work
I understand the serious consequences of committing our troops into harm's way. It's the hardest decision a president makes.
I understand how hard it is
It's hard work.
Everybody knows it's hard work

BUSH ON DEALING WITH FOREIGN LEADERS:

I didn't need anybody to tell me to go to the United Nations. I decided to go there myself.
I know how these people think. I deal with them all the time. I sit down with the world leaders frequently and talk to them on the phone frequently.
I'm interested in working with our nations and do a lot of it.

BUSH DESCRIBES HIMSELF:

The American people know I know how to lead. I've shown the American people I know how to lead.
people know where I stand
People out there listening know what I believe. And that's how best it is to keep the peace.
never waver
be strong
strong
resolute
steadfast
resolved
steadfast and resolute and strong
firm and resolve

BUSH ON ALLAWI, FORMER CAR BOMBER:

Prime Minister Allawi [is] a strong, courageous leader.
Prime Minister Allawi is the leader of that country. He's a brave, brave man.
the brave leader of Iraq
somebody who's courageous and brave

BUSH ON WAR STRATEGY:

pursuing a strategy of freedom
constantly stay on the offensive
stay on the offense
stay on the offense
stay on the offense

A HEALTHY DOSE OF FEAR:

September the 11th changed how America must look at the world
Al Qaida
Al Qaida
terrorist
terrorist
threat
September the 11th
threats
weapons of mass destruction
terror
killers
kill
kill children
attack unmercifully
enemy
enemy
We're facing a group of folks who have such hatred in their heart, they'll strike anywhere, with any means.
weapons of mass destruction
war on terror
war on terror
The Patriot Act is vital -- is vital that the Congress renew the Patriot Act which enables our law enforcement to disrupt terror cells.

BUSH'S WAR RATIONALE(S):

Saddam Hussein was a threat
A free Iraq will be a major defeat in their ideology of hatred.
Get Saddam Hussein to listen to our demands.
The world is safer without Saddam Hussein.
And, of course, Iraq is a central part in the war on terror.
And when Iraq is free, America will be more secure.
A free Iraq is essential for the security of this country.
And a free Iraq is going to make this world a more peaceful place.
A free Iraq, a free Afghanistan, will set such a powerful in a part of the world that's desperate for freedom.

WHAT THE HELL?

We've climbed the mighty mountain. I see the valley below, and it's a valley of peace.
This nation of ours has got a solemn duty to defeat this ideology of hate. And that's what they are.
They showed up in Afghanistan when they were there, because they tried to beat us and they didn't. And they're showing up in Iraq for the same reason. They're trying to defeat us.
It's like a huge tax gap.
Not a message a commander in chief gives, or this is a "great diversion."
Let me finish. (when no one was attempting to interrupt him)
to try to love her as best as I can (speaking about a war widow)
I reject this notion -- and I'm suggesting my opponent isn't -- I reject the notion that some say that if you're Muslim you can't free, you don't desire freedom. I disagree, strongly disagree with that.
The reason why Prime Minister Allawi said they're coming across the border is because he recognizes that this is a central part of the war on terror. They're fighting us because they're fighting freedom.

NOT GETTING THE POINT:

But the enemy attacked us, Jim
Of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, "passes the global test," you take preemptive action if you pass a global test.
My opponent just said something amazing. He said Osama bin Laden uses the invasion of Iraq as an excuse to spread hatred for America. Osama bin Laden isn't going to determine how we defend ourselves.

FUN WITH ENGLISH:

An enemy realizes the stakes.
vociferously
If we lose our will, we lose.

NUMBERS WE KNOW BY HEART:

Seventy-five percent of known Al Qaida leaders have been brought to justice
Seventy-five percent of his people have been brought to justice.
Ten million people have registered to vote in Afghanistan in the upcoming presidential election.
Ten million citizens have registered to vote

GRAB BAG:

And I expect to win. It's necessary we win. (This after saying recently, "I don't think you can win it." I hate mixed messages.)
See, I think you can be realistic and optimistic at the same time.
I'm trying to put a leash on them.
That's totally absurd.

[Rspaight]

Random thoughts:

Kerry won easily, but still botched some things. He could have put that tiresome $87 billion talking point away, and had a big fat fastball-over-the-plate opportunity to do so, but whiffed it. Here's what he should have said:

About that $87 billion... I supported, and voted for, a version of that bill that would have funded that $87 billion from the President's tax cuts. From the tax cut he gave *me* and other wealthy people. The President threatened to veto that bill -- veto a bill providing vital assistance to our troops to protect his upper-class tax cut. Instead, the Republicans and the President passed a bill funding that $87 billion from thin air, adding to our already enormous federal deficit. I'll leave it up to the voters to decide which was the better bill.

Bush noticeably ran out of answer early, almost every time, and had to pad out his allotted time with repetition and talking points.

Bush was on the defensive *all night*, and often sounded whiny and annoyed. He was even worse than I expected. He looked woefully unprepared. I was reminded of his father in the 1992 debates, when George Sr. gave off the aura of someone who would rather be somewhere else.

Kerry screwed up with the "global test" thing, and I think he knew it as soon as it came out of his mouth. Expect this to be the big GOP talking point for the next few days. After all, being a responsible citizen of the world is political ebola.

Kerry's best line:

[Iraq] was a threat. That's not the issue. The issue is what you do about it.

Ryan

[Patrick M]

Kerry's best line:

[Iraq] was a threat. That's not the issue. The issue is what you do about it.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/blo ... gala.blog/

Kerry puts it clearly

Posted: 10:28 p.m. ET

Kerry's using short, strong, clear sentences. He just said, "He [Saddam] was a threat. That's not the issue. It's what you do about the threat." No one could put it more clearly. You may agree or disagree with Kerry, but you can no longer say he hasn't been clear about where he disagrees with Mr. Bush about Iraq.

[Patrick M]

Bush was on the defensive *all night*, and often sounded whiny and annoyed.

He looked really agitated while Kerry was speaking.

[Xenu]

Needless to say, WCF thinks you're all pussies.

[BobSmarmy]

"You know, I think about Missy Johnson. She's a fantastic lady I met in Charlotte, North Carolina. She and her son Bryan, they came to see me. Her husband PJ got killed. He'd been in Afghanistan, went to Iraq.

You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can, knowing full well that the decision I made caused her loved one to be in harm's way."

[BobSmarmy]

[lukpac]

I think one of the best lines was:

"It's one thing to be certain, but you can be certain, and you can be wrong. Certainty sometimes can get you into trouble."

Bush really sounded like a little kid at times.

[Dob]

Did anyone else see the footage comparing Bush's debate with Ann Richards (when he was running for governor) and his debate with Kerry?

I was struck by the difference. In the debate for governor, Bush looked confident, poised, and crisp. By comparison, against Kerry he looked and sounded physically and mentally tired. Even his posture seems to have deteriorated -- he gave the impression of being much older than Kerry.