Question for tape hiss experts - Dogs - The Who

[Andreas]

The version on the Rarities Vol. 1 & 2 CD is practically devoid of any tape hiss. Sounds like severe noise reduction to me. Correct? I have never seen this discussed.

(The song Let's See Action also sounds very strange on that CD...also NR?)

The version on Two's Missing has a hint of tape hiss, but still at a surprisingly low volume. What's the matter?

[Phil Elliott]

Dogs sounds fine to me - all the ambience seems to be where it should be; then again, I only have the boxset mix to compare with. The top end is a bit overdriven though - this does sometimes make it sound like it is coming and going. Maybe that mix was just cut extremely hot? The box mix is also a little fuzzy, so it sounds like the levels are cut fairly hot in all areas - if so, there shouldn't be that much hiss.

Let's See Action does sound odd though. I've always found the Rarities version to sound dull and far from source ... as if it was transferred in a hurry without the EQ and Dolby being set correctly (the latter works better if attention is paid to the former). Comparing it with Who Collection and Singles - Rarities is the odd one out. Rarities volumes 1+2 originally came out in 1983 - I don't know if the CD just edits the two album masters together, or is recompiled from individual tapes, etc, but whatever they did, they found a better source for the other two comps.

[lukpac]

Many of the later songs on that CD, Let's See Action included, have some fairly heavy EQ. There's a big chunk taken out of the midrange. Not the best idea (at least on that song), but I do think other versions are too midrangy, so it's a wash. I didn't notice any big differences in source before, just the major EQ difference.

I guess I'd have to listen again, but I'd be really surprised if Dogs had any noise reduction. The top end on that song (both mixes) is somewhat strange sounding.

[Andreas]

But guys, Dogs is a mix from 1968, there should be at least some hiss audible during the intro! And on Rarities 1&2, there is none. Niente. Nichts. Rien.

The intro of Let's See Action on that CD reminds me of Behind Blue Eyes on the Who's Next remix. The same claustrophobic feeling. This song comes alive on The Who Collection and The Singles. Are we really being fooled that much by some different eq?

[Phil Elliott]

In 1968, they still had 4 or 8 track machines using 1" tape.

Magic Bus is the same. I hear more hum than hiss, and that's even on the fake stereo long version...

... and I'm talking about incorrectly setup tape machines / dodgy dubs on Let's See Action.

[lukpac]

But guys, Dogs is a mix from 1968, there should be at least some hiss audible during the intro! And on Rarities 1&2, there is none. Niente. Nichts. Rien.

I'd have to listen again, but like I said, it's just a strange sounding recording...

The intro of Let's See Action on that CD reminds me of Behind Blue Eyes on the Who's Next remix. The same claustrophobic feeling. This song comes alive on The Who Collection and The Singles. Are we really being fooled that much by some different eq?

I actually thought it was pinched on those other two CDs. Again, I'd have to listen again, but when I last compared the difference seemed to come down to EQ. That same basic EQ is on some of the other tracks too. Compare When I Was A Boy to the Who's Missing version, for example (going from memory).

[lukpac]

But guys, Dogs is a mix from 1968, there should be at least some hiss audible during the intro! And on Rarities 1&2, there is none. Niente. Nichts. Rien.

Comparing the box set (stereo) to Rarities (mono) now. *Exactly* the same high end sound in the intro. Almost no hiss, a bit "hard" sounding, etc. I can't believe both transfers would have NR with exactly the same results.

There's a bit of hiss on Two's Missing, but it's my understanding that Hoffman used whatever MCA had, which would mean it came from a tape at least one generation down from the master.

The intro of Let's See Action on that CD reminds me of Behind Blue Eyes on the Who's Next remix. The same claustrophobic feeling. This song comes alive on The Who Collection and The Singles. Are we really being fooled that much by some different eq?

Ok, listening again now.

The EQ is *vastly* different. Neither is ideal, but they are night and day. Listening to the intro, I don't hear any differences in tape hiss. If anything, the Rarities version seems to bring it slightly *forward*.

While LSA is a bit wonky, I'll go out on a limb and say Join Together sounds really nice on Rarities, at least compared to The Singles.

[Andreas]

Could you compare these songs (Let's See Action, Join Together, also The Relay) to The Who Collection? I'd be interested what you think.

[lukpac]

I suppose I could do that. Are Let's See Action and Join Together much different from The Singles?