Greatest hits so great?

[lukpac]

I saw this in one of our local papers today. On one hand, my gut instinct is to say "why does Britney Spears deserve a best-of after only a few years?" Looking back, however, it isn't like this is a new phenomenon. Big Hits (High Tide and Green Grass) came out, what, maybe 3 years (or less) after the Stones started recording? The Turtles' Golden Hits was perhaps 2 years after their first album. Etc...

How Great Can A Hits Album Be If You've Only Been Recording For A Few Years?

By NEKESA MUMBI MOODY
The Associated Press

A greatest-hits album once stood as a watershed -- a milestone chronicling a collection of top-rated hits, culturally significant songs or the end of a stellar career.

But in recent years, a flood of "best of" titles from acts with only a few years in the business -- and performers with even fewer hits -- have called into question how great a greatest-hits collection is.

Last fall, Britney Spears released "Greatest Hits: My Prerogative," a retrospective of her chart-topping, multiplatinum recording career -- all six years of it. The Backstreet Boys put out "The Hits: Chapter One" in 2001 -- just four years after releasing their first album.

"I don't know what you'd put on a record if you've only been making records for five years. I don't know what those greatest hits would be," said veteran rocker John Mellencamp.

At least Spears and the Boys had a steady collection of hits -- or can say they have more than just one.

Among the more questionable greatest-hits collections that have popped up in recent years: "Toy Soldiers: The Best of Martika" (with one hit from the 1980s); "The Best of Mandy Moore," from an entertainer who had more success as an actress than she ever did as a singer; and "The Best of O.D.B.," from the late rapper who will best be remembered for his wild behavior and legal troubles than his chart-topping hits (or lack thereof).

And while teen queen Hilary Duff has sold millions of albums, she's only released two discs -- the first one in 2003 -- and neither spawned a top 10 hit. Her "best of" collection, "Most Wanted," hit record stores Tuesday.

"I guess with music becoming so disposable, things just happen so much faster now," said Collective Soul guitarist Dean Roland, whose band put out a greatesthits album of its own in 2001. "The short answer to the whole thing is it comes out to a money issue. The labels can put a greatest-hits album out and it's going to sell."

They can be wildly popular. The Eagles' "Their Greatest Hits: 1971-1975" is the best-selling album in U.S. history, selling more than 28 million copies. They're also cheap to produce and promote.

Sheryl Crow, whose "The Very Best of Sheryl Crow," was a multiplatinum hit in 2003, agrees that in some cases, thoughts of profits weigh heavily. "Part of that is record labels continually try to work their catalog so they always have money coming in," Crow said.

But Kevin Gore, executive vice president of sales and marketing at Rhino Entertainment, which puts out various greatest-hits packages, compilations and boxed sets, says a "Best of Sugar Ray" -- which they recentlyre-leased -- is valid, even if some may sneer.

"At the end of the day, there's a larger audience that will buy a greatest-hits collection than might buy the individual albums just because they've chosen not to buy the original albums," Gore said.

"Let's say there's two hit songs on a record from five years ago, and then there's another two hit songs from a record that's three years ago," he said. "You have a greater opportunity to bring in a larger audience because you're putting all the hits in one place."

It's an idea the Backstreet Boys agree with -- even though, initially, they balked at the idea of putting one out.

"For me as an artist, like, when I see somebody put out a greatest-hits record, they're either finished, or they need some time (off)," said Brian Littrell. "I kind of felt it was too soon to put those great songs on a CD. I think I wanted our fans to miss them a little bit."

However, Howie Dorough said in many ways, the greatest-hits album -- which sold more than 1 million copies and contained a few new tunes -- may have drawn the casual fan who had never brought a Backstreet Boys CD.

"We've had, knock on wood, over 12 singles," Dorough said. "But for somebody who's not a truly Backstreet fan, (who) wants to go out and buy five different records? . . . To be able to go and buy their greatest hits, I'd do that in a heartbeat."

A more critical issue, record companies say, is the decreasing shelf space to carry an artist's catalog. With the advent of Wal-Mart and Target as major record stores, there are fewer outlets where you might find several different albums from one artist.

"If an artist has five or six or seven albums in his or her catalog, a lot of times many retailers are only carrying two or three.

Perhaps songs that were included on albums one, three and five might no longer get the kind of visibility or shelf space that a hits record will provide those particular songs," said Jeff Jones, executive vice president of Sony BMG's catalog division Legacy Recordings (whose catalog releases this year range from Miles Davis to Bob Dylan to . . . Martika).

Which brings us back to Martika's "Best Of . . . " collection.

At the time, her "Toy Soldiers" was enjoying a resurgence after Eminem sampled it on his song, "Like Toy Soldiers." Fans searching for the original song may have been out of luck, Jones said.

Stores weren't carrying her records anymore, he said, adding: "So without creating a new hits collection, there's no visibility."

Besides, just because the average person can't name more than one Martika song doesn't mean there aren't fans out there.

"A hits collection doesn't necessarily always have to be 16 No. 1 songs," Jones said.

Not anymore.

Which is good news for the PM Dawns, Lisa Stansfields and Color Me Badds of the world -- who all have greatest-hits albums.

[Xenu]

I saw this in one of our local papers today. On one hand, my gut instinct is to say "why does Britney Spears deserve a best-of after only a few years?" Looking back, however, it isn't like this is a new phenomenon. Big Hits (High Tide and Green Grass) came out, what, maybe 3 years (or less) after the Stones started recording? The Turtles' Golden Hits was perhaps 2 years after their first album. Etc...

Well, yes, but keep in mind that:

a) White Whale were utterly exploitative and one should never forget that.

b) In the age of analog, hits LPs had an extra layer of significance, especially in the UK. Sure, you had "Satisfaction" on 45, but you didn't have it on an *album* yet. Consequently, interim hits discs that collected stray singles had a particular function that can be largely obselete today.

[lukpac]

a) White Whale were utterly exploitative and one should never forget that.

Perhaps, but I don't think they were unique. Greatest Hits/Golden Hits/etc were quite common back then, regardless of the label.

b) In the age of analog, hits LPs had an extra layer of significance, especially in the UK. Sure, you had "Satisfaction" on 45, but you didn't have it on an *album* yet. Consequently, interim hits discs that collected stray singles had a particular function that can be largely obselete today.

That is true, at least in the UK. On the other hand, it probably wasn't so much the case in the US. Plus I get the feeling that the general public was less concerned about having things on LP vs. single.

[CitizenDan]

Re Britney, when I checked a few months ago, she'd had something like 20 Top 40 hits, including a dozen Top 10s and three No. 1s.

Whether they've been from three CDs or 30, I'd say she's earned a hits comp.

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

a) White Whale were utterly exploitative and one should never forget that.

That may be, but Flo and Eddie haven't exactly done a wonderful job themselves. What's the deal with the 8,000 cruddy-ass budget Turtles comps that have come out in the last few years? Why the hell are all of the Sundazed CD's now out of print?

Sorry for the thread crap.

[Xenu]

That may be, but Flo and Eddie haven't exactly done a wonderful job themselves. What's the deal with the 8,000 cruddy-ass budget Turtles comps that have come out in the last few years? Why the hell are all of the Sundazed CD's now out of print?

I actually think that Flo and Eddie have done a *wonderful* job with the Turtles catalog.

For one, these are the guys who convinced not one, not two, but three major reissue labels--Rhino, Sundazed, and Repertoire--to put out pretty much the entire Turtles catalog, which was never that hot of a property to begin with. The Sundazed discs came out in 1995 and 1996, and the Repertoires came out at around the same time. That means they were in print for about ten years, which I think is an acheivement. I hope that anybody who wanted them had a chance to buy them, and extortionist prices on half.com notwithstanding, I can't imagine they're that hard to find (that said, the Left Banke comp was in print for at least ten years, and look at how quickly that thing vanished).

As for the budget comps...to which budget comps are you referring? F and E's game plan has always included budget versions of the Turtles catalog, which is a smart way to nab extra sales. The Laserlight set corresponded with the initial set of reissues in 1994, and was actually pretty well put together. Since then, there have been occasional budget appearances of The Turtles--a "Love Songs" here, a "Ten Best" there, a "Golden Hits" around the corner--but hey, those things are impulse items, and they probably generate some sale power that the albums/mid-to-full-priced Hits collections wouldn't.

Again, Flo and Eddie have been pretty good custodians. They never did the obligatory we'll-re-record-our-hits-and-pretend-they're-the-real-thing gag, so even when they appeared on K-Tel and Collectables, it was the real deal. Between the Laserlight set and the Repertoire set, you get a surprising amount of rarities that I would've never expected to see available so readily on CD ("To See the Sun," "Umbassa and the Dragon"). They're no Small Faces. They remain fully involved in almost every project that goes on.

[Bennett Cerf]

If you think it's too soon for a Britney Spears hits collection, you probably haven't realized how old you've become.

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

For one, these are the guys who convinced not one, not two, but three major reissue labels--Rhino, Sundazed, and Repertoire--to put out pretty much the entire Turtles catalog.

True, but I don't see that as such a great thing. Why not do a comprehensive reissue program with one label? The Sundazed reissues sound great, but two (occasionally three) measly bonus tracks per disc ain't exactly a great value. The fact that one of the key tracks from their debut was omitted because it's also on the second album didn't help matters.

I also can't help thinking that putting out so much material on budget labels kind of devalues the whole catalog. And as far as the rarities go, let me put it this way: If I've just purchased every damn "deluxe" CD in your catalog, then why do I now have to dig through the bargain bins at Kmart to find the B-sides that should have been included on the discs I already have?

Of course, for all I know F&E could be working with Rhino or some other entity right now to finally put out definitive reissues of all of the original albums. Do they own the rights to their 70's material too?

[lukpac]

That means they were in print for about ten years, which I think is an acheivement. I hope that anybody who wanted them had a chance to buy them, and extortionist prices on half.com notwithstanding, I can't imagine they're that hard to find (that said, the Left Banke comp was in print for at least ten years, and look at how quickly that thing vanished).

I'm convinced that today, regardless of the artist, "out of print" (regardless of how long it was in print) means nothing but $$$. Luckily LPs don't have quite the same problem, but try finding Emitt Rhodes' first solo album or Mason Proffit's Come & Gone, both of which were released on CD twice or more. Rather, I should say, find them for a reasonable price. I think the (One Way) Mason Proffit disc went OOP around 2002 or 2003, after being in print for 5 or 6 years. I got it online for probably $12 at the time. Lately I've seen it go for more than $40-$50.

[Xenu]

True, but I don't see that as such a great thing. Why not do a comprehensive reissue program with one label?

They *did*. The Repertoire releases were pretty damn comprehensive...offhand, I don't think that campaign misses a single song that had ever been available on vinyl. It misses a few *mixes* and slight variations, but no songs.


I think the only things exclusive to the Sundazed series are the stereo mixes of Sound Asleep/She's My Girl and one of the "We'll Meet Again" mixes.

The Sundazed reissues sound great, but two (occasionally three) measly bonus tracks per disc ain't exactly a great value. The fact that one of the key tracks from their debut was omitted because it's also on the second album didn't help matters.

The Sundazed albums couldn't hope to be comprehensive. Remember, US licensing is a different matter entirely. Repertoire could pad their albums out with songs with no significant pricing penalty, while Sundazed simply couldn't. From the looks of it, Sundazed refused to exit mid-price territory, and so we were limited to one or two bonuses.

With regard to sounding great...well, they seem to use slightly lower-gen tapes than the Repertoires (clearly noticable on "Battle of the Bands"), but are otherwise more or less comparable. And I will never understand why Irwin felt the need to compress the shit out of "Turtle Soup" and "Wooden Head" (Although to be fair they still sound fine, and clip restoration works wonders on those).

Re. "Let Me Be"...yeah, that's fucking inexcusable. I can't believe Sundazed pulled that stunt. I doubt that was at Flo and Eddie's behest!

I also can't help thinking that putting out so much material on budget labels kind of devalues the whole catalog.

This is the Turtles catalog we're talking about, and most of those "budget" releases are at least marginally classy, which is more than I can say about the endless Kinks compilations we've seen throughout the years. And there really aren't *that many*...they just tend to linger, so ten budget releases over the course of fifteen years...

And as far as the rarities go, let me put it this way: If I've just purchased every damn "deluxe" CD in your catalog, then why do I now have to dig through the bargain bins at Kmart to find the B-sides that should have been included on the discs I already have?

You don't. As I mentioned, the Repertoire discs include everything...the Laserlight set seems like a way of allowing purchasers of the Sundazed catalog to get some of the more interesting tracks without having to go through a second go-round with the albums (intriguingly, though, the Laserlight version of "To See the Sun" runs longer).

Of course, for all I know F&E could be working with Rhino or some other entity right now to finally put out definitive reissues of all of the original albums. Do they own the rights to their 70's material too?

God, I hope they don't work with Rhino. I'm finally entering a phase where I'm getting tired of the typical "Inglot" sound...he does good work, but more often than not it's treble, treble, treble.

In any case: while the Reps aren't quite definitive (in fact, the "mono singles mixes" they use seem to be the *UK* single mixes, which may just be knockdowns of the stereo...) they're pretty close. While I can certainly imagine more "ideal" versions of the albums, I can't see them happening domestically any time soon.

Re. the F&E solo catalog: Flo and Eddie do, in fact, own the rights to the first two albums...they haven't gotten around to putting them out. I absolutely adore The Phlorescent Leech and Eddie, and I really wish they'd just do a straight transfer of it...that LP has a really wonderful tonality (by contrast, two of the three tracks from that album that're on the Flo and Eddie Hits CD are among the shittiest, half-hearted remixes I've ever heard...Goodbye Surprise and Feel Older Now are basically mono, with no bass, and tons of reverb applied).

[MK]

Hey, Rhino, Sundazed...David Johansen's self-titled solo debut is out-of-print. So's "Lick My Decals." Vintage Fairport Convention, Richard Thompson, out-of-print in the U.S. Release those.

The Turtles? If it wasn't for a sample on "3 Feet High & Rising," I would never choose to listen to them.

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

Re. "Let Me Be"...yeah, that's fucking inexcusable. I can't believe Sundazed pulled that stunt. I doubt that was at Flo and Eddie's behest!

No, I think that's a Bob Irwin thing. He did the same thing on the Standells reissues. Since "Dirty Water" had already appeared on the album of the same name, he deleted it from The Hot Ones. Pretty damn stupid.

God, I hope they don't work with Rhino. I'm finally entering a phase where I'm getting tired of the typical "Inglot" sound...he does good work, but more often than not it's treble, treble, treble.

Didn't Inglot master the Sundazed CD's?

Actually, I'm not quite sure why I'm getting so worked up about the Turtles catalog. I honestly don't listen to it that much. I listened to the Rhino Solid Zinc comp recently and didn't really get into it until halfway through Disc 2. I still enjoy a lot of their stuff, but basically they went through 3 phases: ersatz Byrds, ersatz Lovin' Spoonful, and then ersatz Kinks.

Time to go to bed...

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

Hey, Rhino, Sundazed...David Johansen's self-titled solo debut is out-of-print. So's "Lick My Decals." Vintage Fairport Convention, Richard Thompson, out-of-print in the U.S. Release those.

The Turtles? If it wasn't for a sample on "3 Feet High & Rising," I would never choose to listen to them.

You elitist! How dare you?!?

Actually, thank you for putting things into perspective.

[Xenu]

The Turtles? If it wasn't for a sample on "3 Feet High & Rising," I would never choose to listen to them.

*shrug* I think they're much better than they're ever given credit for.

Didn't Inglot master the Sundazed CD's?

He and Ken Perry did some, Irwin did the two bad ones. They're some examples of good Inglot work.

Actually, I'm not quite sure why I'm getting so worked up about the Turtles catalog. I honestly don't listen to it that much. I listened to the Rhino Solid Zinc comp recently and didn't really get into it until halfway through Disc 2.

My feeling about the Turtles is that they're constantly a "diamond-in-the-rough" band; they always had a lot of talent, but never knew how to present it. I love some tracks from the first two albums, but find them generally disposable otherwise...however, some of the early *singles* ("Outside chance" and esp. "Grim Reaper") are great. "Happy Together" starts picking up, although of course Rhino decided to comp the least interesting tracks from the album. "Walking Song" is an utter delight. I think "Battle of the Bands" is inspired almost all the way through, and I really enjoy "Turtle Soup." The various B-sides and singles from this period are also astounding, and I can't believe "Can I Go On" was never on an album.

I still enjoy a lot of their stuff, but basically they went through 3 phases: ersatz Byrds, ersatz Lovin' Spoonful, and then ersatz Kinks.

Love's first album was ersatz Byrds! And I take issue with ersatz Kinks. Despite Davies' production, they never sound anything like the Kinks.

[Xenu]

You elitist! How dare you?!?

Actually, thank you for putting things into perspective.

Hey, different strokes. "Decals" is out of print, but anybody who wants it can get a copy of the OOP Rhino disc, which was *splendid*. I really enjoy The Turtles, and I don't think this conflicts with all of the hipper things that're currently languishing.