Any Opinions On "Pre-Commercial" Genesis CDs ?

[Larkston Zinazpic]

I've never really been crazy about the DE remasters (the ones I've heard anyway), so I'm wondering if the older CDs are the way to go. I realize these aren't great recordings to begin with, but it seems like they could only get worse with too much tweaking. I've heard that the DE of Trespass is one to stay away from but meanwhile the old MCA disc I have is highly listenable, for example.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 41166&rd=1

Any idea why these JPN CDs are so friggin expensive, BTW?




...

[Beatlesfan03]

I've never been crazy on the DE remasters either.

IMHO, the Charisma UK titles are the one's to go with. These are the ones with the cropped covers. I've started picking them up again and they are well worth it. Not perfect, but more enjoyable than the DEs.

However, there are instances where the DEs are better. The remastered "Lamb" sounds very good. Same can be said for "Wind and Wuthering" and "Seconds Out" as well. Admittedly, "the Lamb" wasn't very good the first time around on either side of the pond. Supposedly in September (I say supposedly since this has been on again off again quite frequently) a newly remastered version of "The Lamb" is due on SACD (import only) with a multi-channel mix. If you're in to multi-channel, you might want to wait for this.

Got into a discussion with Phil Elliott on these once at sh.tv. Perhaps he'll chime in here as well. I'd post his finds that I got there, but I seem to be persona non grata now and can't access the site most of the time.

[krabapple]

I've never been crazy about the original issue CDs. In every case, the DEs were as good or better, IMO. I think the SHtv romanticizing of the original 'Nursery Cryme' and 'Foxtrot', in particular, borders on the perverse...

[Andreas]

Krabapple,

you have to clarify which "original issue CDs" you are talking about.

You make the same error that many SH.tv posters make, generalizing from one particular finding to every CD release worldwide.

[Rspaight]

I was never impressed with the "cropped cover" CDs (at least the ones I had -- Trespass, Foxtrot and Nursery). I thought they were overly noisy and muddy. The DEs suit me fine.

Ryan

[Andreas]

I prefer the Virgin/Charisma CDs (with the "cropped covers") of Trespass, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot and Selling England By The Pound over the remasters. Noise reduction on the remasters (especially Trespass and Selling England By The Pound) being the main reason.

[krabapple]

Krabapple,

you have to clarify which "original issue CDs" you are talking about.

You make the same error that many SH.tv posters make, generalizing from one particular finding to every CD release worldwide.

I've never seen a demonstration that the European CD versions were different masters than the US ones. Do you ahve EAC logs available?

[Andreas]

Trespass: Virgin/Charisma, Manufactured in the UK, CASCD 1020.
Inner ring: VIRGIN MEGASTORE CASCD 1020, MASTERED BY NIMBUS

Track 1 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 2 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 3 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 4 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 5 Peak level 54.8 %
Track 6 Peak level 100.0 %

[Andreas]

Nursery Cryme: Virgin/Charisma, Manufactured in the UK, CASCD 1052.
Inner ring: CASCD 1052, MASTERED BY NIMBUS

Track 1 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 2 Peak level 52.7 %
Track 3 Peak level 100.0 %
Track 4 Peak level 98.5 %
Track 5 Peak level 92.7 %
Track 6 Peak level 53.3 %
Track 7 Peak level 100.0 %

[Andreas]

Foxtrot: Virgin/Charisma, Manufactured in the UK, CASCD 1058.
Inner ring: CASCD 1058/01 VIRGIN MEGASTORE @2

Track 1 Peak level 83.9 %
Track 2 Peak level 79.9 %
Track 3 Peak level 73.8 %
Track 4 Peak level 96.3 %
Track 5 Peak level 56.1 %
Track 6 Peak level 92.9 %

[Andreas]

Selling England By The Pound: Virgin/Charisma, Manufactured in the UK, CASCD 1074.
Inner ring: VIRGIN MEGASTORE CASCD 1052, MASTERED BY NIMBUS

Track 1 Peak level 96.2 %
Track 2 Peak level 93.0 %
Track 3 Peak level 98.9 %
Track 4 Peak level 61.3 %
Track 5 Peak level 91.6 %
Track 6 Peak level 58.2 %
Track 7 Peak level 90.4 %
Track 8 Peak level 64.6 %

[Larkston Zinazpic]

Genesis / Trespass: MCA, made in Canada, MCBBD 1653.

Inner ring: MCABD-1653 MFG BY CINRAM #930215LL


Looking For Someone:
Pre-gap length 0:00:02.00
Peak level 100.0 %

White Mountain:
Pre-gap length 0:00:01.33
Peak level 83.8 %

Visions of Angels:
Pre-gap length 0:00:01.44
Peak level 84.1 %

Stagnation:
Pre-gap length 0:00:02.56
Peak level 100.0 %

Dusk:
Pre-gap length 0:00:00.56
Peak level 59.5 %

The Knife:
Pre-gap length 0:00:00.90
Peak level 100.0 %

[krabapple]

Selling England by the Pound (USA)
Atlantic SD-19277-2
inner ring inscriptions:
4/91 1DA1X
192772

EAC extraction logfile from 11. May 2005, 2:34 for CD
Genesis / Selling England by the Pound

Used drive : HL-DT-STCD-RW GCE-8481B Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Steven Sullivan\Desktop\SEBTP\Genesis\1973 - Selling England by the Pound\01 - Dancing With the Moonlit Knight.wav

Peak level 97.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 3F3CB99C
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Steven Sullivan\Desktop\SEBTP\Genesis\1973 - Selling England by the Pound\02 - I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe).wav

Peak level 94.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 1B4D4326
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Steven Sullivan\Desktop\SEBTP\Genesis\1973 - Selling England by the Pound\03 - Firth of Fifth.wav

Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC EC8BF6CF
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Steven Sullivan\Desktop\SEBTP\Genesis\1973 - Selling England by the Pound\04 - More Fool Me.wav

Peak level 62.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 5DDE2A20
Copy OK


(next few tracks had scratches and read errors, so I omit them)



Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Steven Sullivan\Desktop\SEBTP\Genesis\1973 - Selling England by the Pound\08 - Aisle of Plenty.wav

Peak level 61.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 5DFB32EB
Copy OK

[Andreas]

In other words, they are different. (But do they sound different?)

Compare tracks 4 and 8 on Selling England. On mine, track 8 is louder. On krabapple's, track 4 is louder. Interesting.

[krabapple]

In other words, they are different. (But do they sound different?)

Compare tracks 4 and 8 on Selling England. On mine, track 8 is louder. On krabapple's, track 4 is louder. Interesting.

Wouldn't be surprised if they sounded different, given the peak differences, though average RMS data would be useful too. In any case, thanks for helping provide, AFAIK, the first actual objective evidence that there are more than one mastering of 'nondefinitive' editions out there.