Hoffman's Buddy Holly compilation

Just what the name says.
Post Reply
Andreas
Posts: 535
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:41 am

Re: Hoffman's Buddy Holly compilation

Postby Andreas » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:28 am

Crummy Old Label Avatar wrote:mono tape transferred using a stereo deck

How common is this? Many of my older CDs have mono songs not in true mono. It is not bothersome (unless there are stereo noises), but should't a mono tape result in two digitally identical channels on CD?

The Polydor Who's Better Who's Best also has this phenomenon, while the MCA version has all the mono songs in absolute mono. They are both from 1988....strange.

Even the mono songs on the DCC Endless Summer or DCC Pet Sounds are not entirely mono. But the difference between the channels is so small that you won't hear it. OOPS-cancellation of "Wouldn't It Be Nice" reduces the volume to about -30 db.

The Pastmasters Beach Boys CDs have more differences between the two channels of the mono songs.
Top
User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4592
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:
Contact lukpac

Re: Hoffman's Buddy Holly compilation

Postby lukpac » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:10 am

Andreas wrote:It is not bothersome (unless there are stereo noises), but should't a mono tape result in two digitally identical channels on CD?


Why would it? You have two separate analog sources (the two tracks on the tape head). There's no way you can have separate analog sources and have them turn out digitally identical.

It's really no different than playing a mono LP with a stereo cartridge. You get stereo record noise, don't you? And the music isn't 100% mono, is it?
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
Top
User avatar
Rob P
Posts: 407
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:06 am
Location: Godforsakenland

Postby Rob P » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:15 am

Luke, I'm interested in purchasing a mono cartridge, but I can't ascertain (from comments on the internet) if it makes a positive difference in playing mono records. Which one do you use?
Top
User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4592
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:
Contact lukpac

Postby lukpac » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:48 am

I can't say I've ever used a mono stylus, nor do I play all that many mono records. So I can't help too much on that front.

I use an Audio-Technica Studio Reference 8008; I believe that is the same as the 331LP. It's got a linear contact stylus. While I've never tried it, it can apparently reproduce the carrier signal (30-50kHz) on CD-4 LPs.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
Top
User avatar
Rob P
Posts: 407
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:06 am
Location: Godforsakenland

Postby Rob P » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:02 am

I'm interested in the Grado mono carts, mostly because of their price and availability. They have two different models, one with a conical stylus and one with an elliptical. Denon is also supposed to make a good one. After that, the choices are too expensive. I have a decent amount of jazz records pressed in mono, so I'm curious about obtaining a mono cart.

I hear great things about the Audio Technica carts. If I wasn't so satisfied with the Rega Elys I currently use, I'd get an AT440.
Top
Andreas
Posts: 535
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:41 am

Re: Hoffman's Buddy Holly compilation

Postby Andreas » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:08 am

lukpac wrote:You have two separate analog sources (the two tracks on the tape head).
Sorry, I am not following you, honestly. Where do the two sources originate from? Isn't a mono tape just one track of music?

Since I am not a mastering engineer, I have never seen or used a tape. It was always my understanding that a stereo mix resides on two tracks of a tape, and that a mono mix is on just one track.
Top
User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4592
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:
Contact lukpac

Re: Hoffman's Buddy Holly compilation

Postby lukpac » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:25 am

Andreas wrote:Sorry, I am not following you, honestly. Where do the two sources originate from? Isn't a mono tape just one track of music?


Yes, but it still isn't perfectly uniform across the width of the tape.

Trying to think of a decent analogy...

Draw a line on a piece of paper with a crayon as wide as possible. Now imagine you look at two narrow "tracks" on that line. They aren't going to be 100% identical due to irregularities in the paper, crayon, etc.

Ok, that was pretty dumb.

Same thing with tape (the irregularities, not being dumb). Due to the heads (both record and playback) and the tape itself, you'll never have *exactly* the same thing across the width of a tape/track. In most cases things will be "close enough" so that it really doesn't make any difference, but nevertheless, there could be a difference. A good example would be if there was a problem with the oxide on one portion of a mono tape, but not across the entire width. Play that back in stereo, and one channel might be fine, while the other would have dropouts.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
Top
User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4592
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:
Contact lukpac

Postby lukpac » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:31 am

And on top of all that...even if the tape *was* 100% uniform across the entire width, the two channels still wouldn't be digitally identical because you would be going through two different analog signal paths, one for each channel.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
Top
Andreas
Posts: 535
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:41 am

Postby Andreas » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:43 am

I really do not understand how music is stored on a tape. I have about 100 questions about this subject...
Top
User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4592
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:
Contact lukpac

Postby lukpac » Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:46 am

This would be a good primer:

http://www.modrec.com/

Although I haven't seen the latest editions (I think I have the 2nd edition or something).
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
Top
Dob
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Detroit

Postby Dob » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:47 am

Andreas wrote:Is the "Rave On" click absent on other Buddy Holly CDs, e.g. the Labson Buddy Holly Collection?

My gold CD does not have it.
Dob
-------------------
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance" -- HL Mencken
Top
Dob
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Detroit

Postby Dob » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:50 am

lukpac wrote:And on top of all that...even if the tape *was* 100% uniform across the entire width, the two channels still wouldn't be digitally identical because you would be going through two different analog signal paths, one for each channel.

I would guess that's a more likely explanation, and it would account for the frequency response discrepancies as well. Two different paths allow for many potential misalignments and misadjustments.
Dob

-------------------

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance" -- HL Mencken
Top
User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4592
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:
Contact lukpac

Postby lukpac » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:57 am

I was actually thinking just the opposite, but...
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
Top
Ess Ay Cee Dee
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:35 pm
Contact:
Contact Ess Ay Cee Dee

Postby Ess Ay Cee Dee » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:53 pm

nt
Last edited by Ess Ay Cee Dee on Sun May 01, 2005 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
User avatar
Crummy Old Label Avatar
Posts: 1226
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:55 pm
Location: Out of my fucking mind

Postby Crummy Old Label Avatar » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:20 pm

I'm a sailor boy
I'm a sailor boy
I'm a sailor boy
I'm a sailor boy

In a Rotterdam port
I will always resort
To doing absinthe and crime
Get slung in jail for a time

In a Rotterdam cell
Genet and me get on well
Trading tales of the sea
Then he goes down on me

I'm a sailor boy
I'm a sailor boy
I'm a sailor boy
I'm a sailor boy

In a Rotterdam cell Genet and me get on well
He puts his hand on my knee
He wants to sodomise me!!

I'm a sailor boy
I'm a sailor boy
I'm a sailor boy
I'm a sailor boy

La-la-la-la-la-la
If you love Hi-REZ TAPE HISS, you're REALLY going to love Stereo Central
Top
Post Reply

Return to “General Music Discussion”