The Who: Odds And Sods

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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:05 pm

Dob wrote:Can you describe this change a bit more? Was it just the stereo image that changed or was there a tonality difference as well?


I can shift channels by several seconds, and while things will sound *really* messed up, the tonality isn't going to change - the same signal is still coming out of each speaker, just at different times.
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Postby Dob » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:11 pm

lukpac wrote:Yes, but it doesn't work unless you sum to mono.

OK, I think I get it now. If you leave it in stereo, the channels won't get to interact until the sound is actually played through the speakers, and since there are so many possibilities for a further change in phase or frequency (speaker crossover, room reflections), the exact (or near exact) relationship necessary for a cancellation will be lost.
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Postby krabapple » Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:21 pm

Wouldn't headphone use make this more sensitive, then?
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Postby lukpac » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:19 am

Dob wrote:OK, I think I get it now. If you leave it in stereo, the channels won't get to interact until the sound is actually played through the speakers, and since there are so many possibilities for a further change in phase or frequency (speaker crossover, room reflections), the exact (or near exact) relationship necessary for a cancellation will be lost.


Yes. My guess is you'd get bigger changes in phase simply by moving your speakers (or walking around the room).
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Postby Phil Elliott » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:37 am

Dob wrote:
Phil Elliott wrote:I didn't think it would alter the stereo image that much in normal playback, but when I hit "undo", and replayed it, the change was surprising to say the least.

Can you describe this change a bit more? Was it just the stereo image that changed or was there a tonality difference as well?


It was the stereo image; I was working on headphones at the time though, so I wasn't listening for any cancellations ...
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Postby Andreas » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:05 am

Err....are there any original Polydor CDs that are different from the MCA's? Okay:

A Quick One (it was a different album in the US than in the UK; UK is completely in mono)
Sell Out (UK does not have "track records")
Who's Next (Polydor has fade-in for Baba O'Riley; of course there is also Steve's master which is clearly different than either the Polydor or the other MCA)

Anything else?

I am waiting for my copy of the US WBWB and I will post a track-by-track comparison with the UK WBWB soon. I already know that at least five songs are different mixes: The Kids Are Alright (UK has the full length version), Happy Jack (single version vs alt. version), Pictures Of Lily (UK has the same mix as The Singles), Magic Bus (UK has the mono mix), Won't Get Fooled Again (UK has the album version). But are the other songs the same mastering?
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Postby JWB » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:56 am

I desperately need a copy of "The Who Collection". Can anybody help me out?
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Postby lukpac » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:40 am

Andreas wrote:Err....are there any original Polydor CDs that are different from the MCA's? Okay:

A Quick One (it was a different album in the US than in the UK; UK is completely in mono)
Sell Out (UK does not have "track records")
Who's Next (Polydor has fade-in for Baba O'Riley; of course there is also Steve's master which is clearly different than either the Polydor or the other MCA)

Anything else?

I am waiting for my copy of the US WBWB and I will post a track-by-track comparison with the UK WBWB soon. I already know that at least five songs are different mixes: The Kids Are Alright (UK has the full length version), Happy Jack (single version vs alt. version), Pictures Of Lily (UK has the same mix as The Singles), Magic Bus (UK has the mono mix), Won't Get Fooled Again (UK has the album version). But are the other songs the same mastering?


The US WBWB has the single version of Happy Jack as well.

The Polydor Who's Next has fades on more than just Baba (I'm pretty sure BBE has one too).

While I no longer have the MCA, I'm pretty sure Live At Leeds is different. I seem to remember the MCA having gaps between songs, while the Polydor has none.

I'm pretty sure WAY is different. David?
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Postby Andreas » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:50 am

lukpac wrote:The US WBWB has the single version of Happy Jack as well.

But the UK WBWB has the alternate.
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Postby lukpac » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:54 am

Oh...the way you wrote that implied it had the single version.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
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Postby JWB » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:01 am

Yeah the UK discs all have an alternate Happy Jack and Pictures Of Lily, for some reason. Were these songs recorded at the same time? I guess someone pulled the wrong tape and labelled it "master".
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Postby lukpac » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:02 am

Or somebody did a digital transfer once which kept getting re-used (certainly much of the box set is lifted from various UK CDs).
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
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Postby JWB » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:07 am

The US CD's have the correct mixes, though, including Hoffman's. Did they all use copy tapes?
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Postby Dob » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:11 pm

krabapple wrote:Wouldn't headphone use make this more sensitive, then?

That would eliminate all room/most speaker effects, but (as I now understand it) in order for phase cancellation to occur, the channels have to interact before sound reaches the ear. In the case of headphones, there would be no channel interaction at all (except for what occurs in the brain).
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Postby Xenu » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:27 pm

Andreas wrote:Err....are there any original Polydor CDs that are different from the MCA's? Okay:

A Quick One (it was a different album in the US than in the UK; UK is completely in mono)
Sell Out (UK does not have "track records")


"Sell Out" is also definitely from a different digital transfer. One runs faster than the other (I don't recall which).

Who's Next (Polydor has fade-in for Baba O'Riley; of course there is also Steve's master which is clearly different than either the Polydor or the other MCA)


Yep.

Anything else?


I don't know. A lot of this was taken at Fang's word, which is why we really should make a competing site. If "Numbers" and "WAY" turn out to be bit-identical, I won't be surprised.


I am waiting for my copy of the US WBWB and I will post a track-by-track comparison with the UK WBWB soon. I already know that at least five songs are different mixes: The Kids Are Alright (UK has the full length version), Happy Jack (single version vs alt. version), Pictures Of Lily (UK has the same mix as The Singles), Magic Bus (UK has the mono mix), Won't Get Fooled Again (UK has the album version). But are the other songs the same mastering?


Exactly. This is what I want to know!

And Luke: I don't *have* any MCA CDs, really. This is the same problem that hit us during the Stones FAQ, in which I didn't have many of hte old ABKCOs. I've been trying to ILL the MCA discs, but my library is de cuntfaces.
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