Interesting Pet Sounds thread on the Smile Shop board

[lukpac]

Without listening, could it just be EQ?

I suppose that means I should go listen.

[Xenu]

BTW, which Pet Sounds do you need, David? The stereo version? I know someone with the box set, I have what I think is a CD-R of the 1999 version. If you give me some time, I can send you some samples, assuming I have what you want.

I need nothing. It's Joe's Garage I really need.

[czeskleba]

So the DCC Pet Sounds really does use this "3rd gen New York Tape"? I assue this info comes from Mark Linett ?

I am curious what Jared's source of information is on this. On the thread mentioned above (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showt ... hp?t=42063) I remember that Steve posted that he did in fact use the original master tape for the DCC Pet Sounds, and that the master was lost sometime after that and before the Pet Sounds Box. Steve ended his post by saying something like "enjoy this insider information while it lasts, since this post will be gone soon because Capitol doesn't like word getting out that they lost the Pet Sounds master tape." Sure enough, his post was removed within a day (although some posters in the thread make reference to it and their posts remain).

I'm not saying Steve Hoffman is infallible, but if he says he used the master tape I don't see a compelling reason to disbelieve him. There are cases where DCC cancelled projects because they couldn't get the actual master tape (eg the Band's second album) so it seems likely they would have done that with Pet Sounds if the master was not available. At the very least, it seems likely that DCC did use an earlier generation tape than the 3rd gen NY Tape described by Jared.

If the source of info about the DCC CD is Mark Linett... well, he's also the one who insists the DCC CD is "heavily processed" while Hoffman maintains it is a flat transfer of the tape.

[lukpac]

I'm not saying Steve Hoffman is infallible, but if he says he used the master tape I don't see a compelling reason to disbelieve him.

To save face?

There are cases where DCC cancelled projects because they couldn't get the actual master tape (eg the Band's second album) so it seems likely they would have done that with Pet Sounds if the master was not available.

Likely, but not necessarily the case. Heck, it's even possible he thought he was using the master at the time.

At the very least, it seems likely that DCC did use an earlier generation tape than the 3rd gen NY Tape described by Jared.

Which would be...a 2nd generation tape.

If the source of info about the DCC CD is Mark Linett... well, he's also the one who insists the DCC CD is "heavily processed" while Hoffman maintains it is a flat transfer of the tape.

Short of hearing the actual tape or a likely story as to why the two sound different, I don't think Hoffman's word is any better or worse than Linett.

[czeskleba]

To save face?

That is possible, but it seems a strange way to save face, dropping a comment out there and then immediately removing it before many people have time to see it. Hoffman has acknowledged times where he did not have the master tape in other cases (eg some of the 50's stuff on the Elvis disc) so why would he lie about Pet Sounds but not lie about Elvis?

Which would be...a 2nd generation tape.

Yeah, that's why I said "at least." If he is incorrect about having used the master tape, I think it's at least likely that he did use a different (and thus probably lower gen) tape then the NY tape, based on the story he told.

Short of hearing the actual tape or a likely story as to why the two sound different, I don't think Hoffman's word is any better or worse than Linett.

In general, I agree. But as regards DCC discs specifically, I consider Hoffman more credible, since he has firsthand knowledge of what was done to prepare the disc and Linett does not. Linett is merely speculating. If the DCC disc is not a flat transfer, Hoffman would simply be a liar. If the DCC disc is a flat transfer, Linett is either a liar or simply coming to a mistaken conclusion based on what he's hearing. I think it's most likely neither is lying, which means Linett must be mistaken. I am generally reluctant to accuse someone of being a liar absent an established history of lying.

[lukpac]

In general, I agree. But as regards DCC discs specifically, I consider Hoffman more credible, since he has firsthand knowledge of what was done to prepare the disc and Linett does not. Linett is merely speculating. If the DCC disc is not a flat transfer, Hoffman would simply be a liar. If the DCC disc is a flat transfer, Linett is either a liar or simply coming to a mistaken conclusion based on what he's hearing. I think it's most likely neither is lying, which means Linett must be mistaken. I am generally reluctant to accuse someone of being a liar absent an established history of lying.

Assuming different tapes were used, neither has to be wrong. That's possible I suppose. If the same tape was used, well, I'm not sure. Not having heard the Linett/Gastwirt mastering, how different is it from the DCC? Is it *possible* that the differences could be the result of SS vs. tubes, different tape machines, etc? Two "flat transfers" could sound different, could they not?

Of course, if the differences are somewhat large, then that idea is probably bunk.

[Andreas]

The source for the story of the "NY tape" was Beach Boys historian Brad Elliott. His point was that the real master tape and the first generation copy were lost even before any CD of Pet Sounds was released.

He is known from writing a Beach Boys book ("Surf's Up 1961-1981") and liner notes for the 1999 Pet Sounds CD, Endless Harmony soundtrack, and Best Of The Brother Years. Also, he was THE online authority about anything Beach Boys until about two years ago, when he disappeared completely. Even SH has favorable words to say about him; just search SH.tv for his name.

The DCC does in no way sound clearer or cleaner than any other Pet Sounds CD. The hiss level is similar on the 1996 mono version. I think I remember it having the same dropouts (Wouldn't It Be Nice, Waiting For The Day). The Linett version (1996) has the bass shaved-off compared to the DCC, and certain instruments sound "processed", not as realistic. The main reference point is always the guitar intro to the first song, which sounds HUGELY different on the 1990 CD (noise reduction), DCC CD, 1996 CD (bright and somehow processed) and the 1999 CD (possibly NR or the high end shaved-off).

[Xenu]

Didn't Brad get into trouble with some project he was working on? IIRC, it was an expanded edition of the Lost and Found material, no?

[lukpac]

Complete Hite Morgan, I believe.

There was also a book I think. Mr. Hunte would know more.

[czeskleba]

Is it *possible* that the differences could be the result of SS vs. tubes, different tape machines, etc? Two "flat transfers" could sound different, could they not?

I don't think Linett claimed his version was a flat transfer. He just said that the DCC version wasn't either, and was "the most processed" version.

[krabapple]

I
The only other version I'm considering at this point is the DVD-A. Does anyone here have it? I'm mainly wondering if the extras are worthwhile. I don't really give a shit about the 5.1 mix. I get bored with music in "surround sound" after about five minutes.

I think the outtakes sound better than the official album.

But then again, I give only a tiny little fragment of a rat's ass about "Pet Sounds" on my most generous days.

[Xenu]

I'm very fond of the unprocessed outtakes on the bootleg box. My big beef with Linnett's mixes is the amount of plate reverb he seems to enjoy throwing on everything.

[Andreas]

Didn't Brad get into trouble with some project he was working on? IIRC, it was an expanded edition of the Lost and Found material, no?

It was to be called "First Wave: The complete Hite-Morgan sessions", a double CD set. It was to be mastered by SH. The non-release is a real loss.

[Xenu]

What happened, exactly?

[czeskleba]

What happened, exactly?

The Beach Boys apparently sued to prevent its release. Which is odd, since bits of the Morgan material have appeared on dozens of cheapo releases over the years with no objection from them. Supposedly the mastering was already complete, and the release was pulled at the 11th hour.