Teen-Humping Married Ministers Like Bush's Values

[Rspaight]

I stole this from Atrios because it's too good not to share.

October 14, 2004:

Bush introduced Mike and Sharla Hintz, a couple from Clive, whom he said benefited from his tax plan.

Last year, because of the enhanced the child tax credit, they received an extra $1,600 in their tax refund, Bush said. With other tax cuts in the bill, they saved $2,800 on their income taxes.

They used the money to buy a wood–burning stove to more efficiently heat their home, made some home improvements and went on a vacation to Minnesota, the president said.

"Next year, maybe they'll want to come to Texas," Bush quipped.

Mike Hintz, a First Assembly of God youth pastor, said the tax cuts also gave him additional money to use for health care.

He said he supports Bush's values.

"The American people are starting to see what kind of leader President Bush is. People know where he stands," he said.

"Where we are in this world, with not just the war on terror, but with the war with our culture that's going on, I think we need a man that is going to be in the White House like President Bush, that's going to stand by what he believes.

"Everybody that I've talked to are saying that things are going to start going his way," Hintz said.

October 30, 2004:

A Des Moines youth pastor is charged with sexual exploitation by a counselor.

KCCI learned that the married father of four recently turned himself in to Johnston police.

Rev. Mike Hintz was fired from the First Assembly of God Church, located at 2725 Merle Hay Road, on Oct. 30. Hintz was the youth pastor there for three years.

Police said he started an affair with a 17-year-old woman in the church youth group this spring.

Church officials fired Hintz immediately after hearing the allegations.

It's good to know who's on what side of the "culture war."

Ryan

[Rob P]

That, above all else, is my biggest problem with the religious right: the outright hypocrisy with their human fraility. He'll be forgiven at some point, because he's a good christian man and prays to God. Whatever.

I find the Assemblies of God people fascinating. My brother goes to a large AG church near here, so I speak from some experience. They're very holy-rollerish and super religious, but they also attract a lot of good looking people who like to dress up, particularly the women. So, at a service there's a lot of teenage girls attending in miniskirts and wearing makeup. It's a warped dichotomy. When I go, I sense large amounts of pheromones just wafting through the place, it feels really sexualized.

[Xenu]

Hypocrisy is generally the problem with moralism. When you're out condemning other people as unnatural and sinful, the "do what I say, not what I do" line really rings false.

If anything, it gives me a grudging respect for the obnoxious televangelists who aren't total sleazeballs. I might not buy their sincerity, and I might find the focus of their particular theology to be atrocious and misguided, but at least they haven't been caught in such an obvious blunder.

[Dob]

He'll be forgiven at some point, because he's a good christian man and prays to God. Whatever.

That's not the worst of it.

A friend of mine, who runs very hot and cold when it comes to religion, had been cheating on his (second) wife for many years, and with many different women. During one of his "hot" religious phases, he decided to confess all. I should add that, IMO, his wife bent over backwards to turn a blind eye to his (rather pooly hidden) indiscretions. Once he confessed, though, she had no choice but to finally face it. (Ironically, she was one of the women he slept with when he was still married to wife #1)

This was a great deal for my buddy, as his conscience was clear and all of his sins had been wiped away, like magic, in God's forgiveness. His wife, however, had it a bit tougher. After she was granted a "suitable" grieving period (which lasted a couple of months, as I recall), she was required to get with the program...in other words, to accept his apology and become a loving, starry-eyed, submissive wife.

Any bitterness or resentment on her part came from the devil, who was the real enemy trying to break up their marriage. And she was reminded of this by her husband -- lovingly, at first, then with a growing impatience. If God completely and totally forgave him, who was she to think that she didn't have to?

It came as a shock to no one when they divorced about a year later.

[Rspaight]

As seen on a bumper sticker:

Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven.

Ryan

[Dob]

Isn't it odd howinnocuous statements can take on a whole new meaning in the light of recent events?

"Special Guest speaker for the event is Pastor Mike Hintz. Mike has worked with teenagers for the past eleven years. What he really loves about working with youth is seeing God take them out of their comfort zone and radically change the way they see God...Mike’s vision for youth ministry is seeing God raise up young men and women of uncommon character who walk in awe of God...He will also take time to share some of his unique methods of ministering to the youth of this generation. Mike travels as a youth speaker at camps and retreats around the nation. When not doing the work of youth ministry he can be found being a husband and father."

I couldn't help but be reminded of how David Koresh (allegedly) approached young women that he desired to include in his Branch Davidian harem: "How would you like to serve God in a very special way?"

[Rob P]

Any bitterness or resentment on her part came from the devil, who was the real enemy trying to break up their marriage. And she was reminded of this by her husband -- lovingly, at first, then with a growing impatience. If God completely and totally forgave him, who was she to think that she didn't have to?

It came as a shock to no one when they divorced about a year later.

Man, that's a sad story. Blaming her lack of forgiveness on the devil or on her stubbornness is crazy. I almost feel that the church and its teachings are more at fault for this viewpoint of your friend. Forgiveness is a very tricky tenet of the Christian religion.

I can't remember, but does anyone know if Jesus forgave Judas for betraying him? I'm trying to figure out if, according to the New Testament story, he forgave all his captors, Pontius Pilate, etc. for his crucifixion. Having grown up Catholic (but not one anymore), I'm fuzzy on the details. I'm just trying to get a better idea of where the extreme forgiveness streak in evangelicals (applied, of course, to what they want to apply it to) comes from.

[Rspaight]

Maybe this is overly facile, but AFAIK one of the driving reasons for the Reformation in the first place was the Catholic Church's monopoly on indulgences. Part of the whole idea of Protestantism was taking the power of forgiveness out of the hands of the church hierarchy and into the hands of the layman.

Along those lines, perhaps the reason we see so many evangelists in positions of power doing scummy things is that the morally weak and perpetually guilt-ridden are drawn to evangelism and its instant, all-powerful promise of forgiveness.

Ryan

[Rob P]

Maybe this is overly facile, but AFAIK one of the driving reasons for the Reformation in the first place was the Catholic Church's monopoly on indulgences. Part of the whole idea of Protestantism was taking the power of forgiveness out of the hands of the church hierarchy and into the hands of the layman.

Along those lines, perhaps the reason we see so many evangelists in positions of power doing scummy things is that the morally weak and perpetually guilt-ridden are drawn to evangelism and its instant, all-powerful promise of forgiveness.

Ryan

Definitely the indulgences, and another big reason was more of a political nature, but still relating to money. The Holy Roman Empire was resentful of their collective monies being filtered through Rome, and the invention of the Gutenberg press kick started the discontent. At the same time, the Catholic Church was going through one of its bacchanalian phases, with the Borgias doing crazy things even by 21st Century standards and Popes having children, debauchery, etc. Once word got out to more people (through the technological innovation of the printing press) resentment built up, and then Martin Luther built on that to begin openly criticizing Rome for its iniquities. They tried to get him to come to Rome to discuss the situation, but he was too smart to do that, knowing the church would kill him if he came. He published his 95 Theses, the Church sent a delegation to arrest him and bring him to Rome, he hid in a monastery in Germany protected by a couple hundred of his students, and the Reformation was on. Pardon my blathering on about this, but I do love history.

I agree about the guilt-ridden being drawn to the Evangelical movement like the moth to a flame. I even think that some of them want to feel bad and do bad things, because without that they can't achieve salvation.

[Rspaight]

Pardon my blathering on about this, but I do love history.

Oh, no problem. At least it's quality blather...

I even think that some of them want to feel bad and do bad things, because without that they can't achieve salvation.

With all the talk about sinsinsinsinsin, that makes sense.

Ryan

[Rob P]

Pardon my blathering on about this, but I do love history.

Oh, no problem. At least it's quality blather...

I even think that some of them want to feel bad and do bad things, because without that they can't achieve salvation.

With all the talk about sinsinsinsinsin, that makes sense.

Ryan

Thanks.

I had extensive experience growing up with non-denominational worship, even though I was raised Catholic. When I was 13 and 14, I went to a couple of summer Christian camps where we praised, worshipped, learned about how to witness to people, flirted with the opposite sex, spoke in tongues on occasion, and generally had a bang up time. In fact, some of those memories are the best memories of my childhood. The leaders really came from a positive, all-inclusive viewpoint, we were racially mixed and from all areas of the country. There wasn't even that much talk about sin. It was a genuinely uplifting experience. I don't believe hardly any of it now, but at the time it seemed like the real deal.

I mention all this to point out that I don't want to lump Christians into thinking that they have one big sin fascination, but that I have problems with some of them thinking that they have to commit sins in order to feel forgived and loved by God. I think that's implanted in the subconscious of a lot of them, from an early age.

[dcooper]

Rob,

Good post. I think those of us who aren't religious tend to lump those of faith into a big basket. That's no more fair then lumping all athiests, agnostics, etc. into some "devil worshipping" basket.

There are millions of perfectly fine Christians who go to church every Sunday and lead lives the way they believe their God wants them to. And as long as they do it privately, or amongst their fellow Christians, more power to them. But when they start going public with their faith, or telling this athiest how I should think or act, then I start to get pissed off.

And I get particularly pissed off when it turns out they are hypocrites like this guy in Iowa. You are not allowed to fight the "cultural war" when you are nailing 17 year girls, you fucking sick bastard.

Dan

[Dob]

I can't remember, but does anyone know if Jesus forgave Judas for betraying him? I'm trying to figure out if, according to the New Testament story, he forgave all his captors, Pontius Pilate, etc. for his crucifixion.

When Christ was on the cross, He said "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34). I think it is clear that this statement is meant to include all his captors, but the actual sin He is forgiving is less clear. Was He asking that his captors not be punished more severly for executing the Son of God (as they weren't aware of this)? Or was He asking for their total absolution?

Pontius Pilate is actually given a very sympathetic treatment. He clearly does not want to execute Jesus (Then said Pilate to the chief priests and [to] the people, "I find no fault in this man." Luke 23:4; "Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined [him] before you, have found no fault in this man...nothing worthy of death is done unto him. I will therefore chastise him, and release [him]." Luke 23:14-16), but relents when the people insist that Barabbas be released instead of Jesus.

As for Judas, Jesus said about him "But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me [is] with me on the table. And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!" (Luke 22:21-22). The "woe" that Jesus mentioned can be interpreted as "suffering" (Judas ends up hanging himself); if so, it isn't a stretch to think that Jesus pitied him. A bit later, Jesus tells Peter "I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me." (Luke 22:34). It's pretty clear that Peter had to be forgiven for this (years later, he ends up dying as a martyr). Was Judas' sin really that much worse than Peter's?

Forgiveness is a very tricky tenet of the Christian religion.

My problem with a lot of Christians is that they place too much importance on God's forgiveness, too little on receiving forgiveness from the person they wronged, and barely a thought about how they can make proper restitution.

Suppose you carelessly break your neighbor's car window. You say you're sorry; your neighbor knows it was an accident and he accepts your apology. Everything's cool...except that the window is still broken.

Most people would insist on replacing the window. But some Christians, because they constantly ask God for everything (some have told me they pray for a good parking spot when they go to the mall), might instead pray for God to replace the window -- or somehow to "make things right" with the neighbor. Plus, if at the end of their prayer they throw in a plea for the salvation of their non-Christian neighbor's soul, they really think they're the salt of the earth.

Perhaps a more realistic example would be that you broke the window, but your neighbor wasn't home and nobody saw you do it. Instead of going through the unpleasantness of confessing to the neighbor, it might be tempting to simply pray for forgiveness and rely on God to "make it right." No fuss, no muss, no guilt.

The problem with relying on God to always forgive you and to take care of all of your problems is that you start to behave like a spoiled kid, blithely assuming that your rich daddy will fix anything you break. You get careless and arrogant...and very offended if someone dares to point this out. Some Christians (Calvinists, for example) believe that they have been predestined to go to heaven (as one of the "God's elect"). Taken to an extreme, this belief might lead someone to think that they will go to heaven no matter what sins they commit.

We're all familiar with the parable of the good Samaritan...sometimes I think that certain Christians, instead of helping the traveler like the Samaritan did, would rather pray for someone else/God to help him and continue on their way.

[Rob P]

Rob,

Good post. I think those of us who aren't religious tend to lump those of faith into a big basket. That's no more fair then lumping all athiests, agnostics, etc. into some "devil worshipping" basket.

There are millions of perfectly fine Christians who go to church every Sunday and lead lives the way they believe their God wants them to. And as long as they do it privately, or amongst their fellow Christians, more power to them. But when they start going public with their faith, or telling this athiest how I should think or act, then I start to get pissed off.

And I get particularly pissed off when it turns out they are hypocrites like this guy in Iowa. You are not allowed to fight the "cultural war" when you are nailing 17 year girls, you fucking sick bastard.


Dan

Dan, Sorry I didn't get to respond yesterday. I agree with you on not stereotyping people, no matter what they choose to believe. I'm confused at the moment on what to believe. Some days, I'm an agnostic, other days, I'm a Unitarian, other days, I'm a Disciple of Christ (it's a mainline liberal Protestant organization). My brother's new Assembly of God church (he's a music minister at a new congregation) even intrigues me a little. He basically goes to two churches at the moment. It's much smaller than the other place I described, but it has a more tolerant atmosphere and is less a spectacle than the first place.

No matter what I choose to believe, I feel that religion has too much influence in the government. For example, I think the "under God" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, that churches shouldn't be tax-exempt, and that the government should take over the investigation and prosecution of Catholic priests who have molested and raped children. Of course, that last one will never happen, since the RC church would get in a snit and cry that their autonomy is being violated.

I think that religion is all around us. There's churches on most every corner, shows on TV that deal with religious themes, Sunday morning broadcasts, media coverage, fishes (IXOYE) and bumper stickers on cars, Christian/Jewish/Muslim comparisons and debates, etc. It's basic human avarice that pushes some religious people and lawmakers to try and legislate the country into a theocratic state. They're hungry for power and want to control people, under the guise of giving glory to God.

The minister is a sick bastard. I can't be totally judgmental, because I've found an occasional teenage girl to be very attractive (most of them look way too young and act immature). However, I'm not a youth minister, and even if I was, I wouldn't abuse my position to chat up vulnerable teenage girls and have sex with them.