The Who Then And Now -- Just Mug Me And Get It Over With

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Xenu
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Postby Xenu » Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:59 pm

Luke, what did we determine the difference to be between the ICSfM single and the BBC version? A different bass track? Or a different mix?

BTW, I love how this set manages to miss "When I Was a Boy." Splendid. Will that song ever come back into print?

Ryan, I know lots of artists have these, but in my opinion they're a Seriously Bad Idea if there isn't an alternative. For example, ABKCO being itself and deciding to break the Singles Collection into a ridiculous collectors' package doesn't really bother me, as we already have the singles set. But the Beatles' sets *only* existing in that form...well, it's frustrating.
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Postby Andreas » Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:00 am

lukpac wrote:Wonder if they'll use the actual single version of ICSFM with the bass overdub (*different* from the BBC version on The Singles).


Somebody on sh.tv claimed that the original single version (both the US and the UK single) is exactly the version on the The Singles CD. Nobody confirmed this, nobody challenged this. Where are the vinly Who collectors?

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Postby Xenu » Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:14 am

Whitefang, unfortunately, and he's wrong frequently enough to make it not matter.
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Postby lukpac » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:09 am

I'm 99.9% certain the single of ICSFM uses a different overdub from the "Singles"/BBC version. See for yourself:

http://lukpac.org/mp3/who/icsfm-track-decca.mp3

The Track single is first, followed by the Decca. Yeah, they sound like crap. But I've EQ'd the hell out of them and still can't get them to sound close to the BBC version.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Rspaight » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:12 am

Xenu wrote:Ryan, I know lots of artists have these, but in my opinion they're a Seriously Bad Idea if there isn't an alternative. For example, ABKCO being itself and deciding to break the Singles Collection into a ridiculous collectors' package doesn't really bother me, as we already have the singles set. But the Beatles' sets *only* existing in that form...well, it's frustrating.


They make more sense IMO for artists from the 12" single and CD single eras, where a single might have half a dozen or more bonus tracks across different formats and editions (i.e., the UK double CD single craze of the early 90s). Some of the discs in the Marillion sets, for example, are 30+ minutes long with exclusive content. Plus there's usually neat-o cover art in the mix. It's a nostalgia trip, pure and simple -- if you grew up collecting the import singles, it's a nifty item.

For 60s- and 70s-era acts where you've got two tracks per single, it makes a lot less sense. I still don't have the Beatles singles box (though I did pick up the EP box used) for that reason, I've got no interest in a Stones set (I've got the Singles Collection), and if I wasn't a manic Who idiot I'd definitely pass on this thing. As it is, though, I'll probably get it if I can find a deal and pass on the Now and Then comp.

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Postby Andreas » Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:52 pm

lukpac wrote:I'm 99.9% certain the single of ICSFM uses a different overdub from the "Singles"/BBC version. See for yourself:

http://lukpac.org/mp3/who/icsfm-track-decca.mp3

The Track single is first, followed by the Decca. Yeah, they sound like crap. But I've EQ'd the hell out of them and still can't get them to sound close to the BBC version.


Thanks a lot for that. It is now 100% clear to me that these two versions are different from the The Singles version, and, besides that, much better, regardless of the mastering.

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Postby lukpac » Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:22 pm

Heh...I *like* that Singles/BBC version, out of place overdub and all...<g>
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Andreas » Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:37 am

Did you do the needle drops yourself? Were the singles in bad shape?

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Postby lukpac » Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:03 am

Yes, I did the transfers. The singles are...as you hear them. Ie, bad. That said, I'm not too sure they ever sounded very good to begin with.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Phil Elliott » Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:16 am

lukpac wrote:
And what exactly is the "single mix" of 5:15? I *thought* the version on The Singles and the box set was from the single released to tie in with the Quadrophenia movie - that single mix is similar to the movie mix.


That's correct; you have the 1979 version on those. The 1973 single is the '73 album mix, complete with both bridges ( "inside, outside".. etc), only without the train station effects. I thought it was on the vinyl LP of The Singles (but the CD would contradict that); however it >is< on "The Best Of The Sixties" LP on Karrusel. I don't have a 7" copy, although it's not particularly rare.

lukpac wrote:And what's the "single version" of Happy Jack? Simply not the "acoustic" version?


... nor the version with the alternate drum overdubs (as on Singles, The Who Collection, 30 Years box).
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Postby lukpac » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:25 am

As I'm listening to The Who Collection, it seems as if a number of songs are more or less lifted from other CDs. Baba and BBE both have the fade-ups present on the Polydor Who's Next CD, for example. And without doing a direct comparison, those '70s singles sound like they do on The Singles (5:15 is the same 'incorrect' mix).

Yet the early songs are mainly/all fake stereo, and sound different than any other CD I've heard (sans MG:TVBOTW, which apparently lifts some tracks from TWC). Happy Jack is the same *mix* as The Singles, but TS is mono, while TWC is fake stereo. And where did they pull Magic Bus from?

As sick as it is, I think I'm going to try and find a copy of my own (I've got this one on loan).
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Xenu » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:54 am

Wait, wait...MG:TVBOTW steals audio from other sources? I thought it mostly matched the reissues (and thus steals audio from *them*)...?

I'm too good to have it on CD, so...
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Postby lukpac » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:58 am

Where have you been?

Yes...off the top of my head, ICE, AAA, My Generation, Boris, and Pictures of Lily all sound like they were lifted from TWC. Don't know where Substitute came from, I'm A Boy is the box set remix, and I think Happy Jack might be a new mastering. I love the "remastered from the 1/4" tapes" notes...

And what are you saying, you have it on tape?
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Xenu » Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:04 pm

lukpac wrote:Where have you been?

Yes...off the top of my head, ICE, AAA, My Generation, Boris, and Pictures of Lily all sound like they were lifted from TWC. Don't know where Substitute came from, I'm A Boy is the box set remix, and I think Happy Jack might be a new mastering. I love the "remastered from the 1/4" tapes" notes...

And what are you saying, you have it on tape?


Well, yes, actually...a cassettes I bought, what, in 1996? I always just assumed it used the boxed-set mastering for most of the songs.

The extent of my encounter with the CD version was ripping the WGFA remix a few years back and sticking it on the end of one of my Who's Next CDRs.

I'm actually a pauper insofar as Who's "Best" comps on CD go. Lesse...I have Ultimate Collection, one of the Who Collection discs (whichever has "Magic Bus" on it...it's a bad pressing, though, full of severe audio errors, and consequently I've never listened to it critically...just enough to determine it had the fade-ups of the WN tracks), Meaty Beaty, and Singles. No "Hooligans," no "Who's Greatest Hits," no 20th Century Masters, no UK-import Ultimate Collection, no MG:VBoTW.
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Postby Xenu » Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:05 pm

Oh, and before I forget: apparently, ICE is doing a Who-SACD special in their next issue.
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