Tommy: Deluxe Edition details

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Tommy: Deluxe Edition details

Postby lukpac » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:51 am

Interesting that the album will be presented in its original mix once again. Also interesting that this will be a hybrid SACD - something My Generation should have been. Maybe this means Astley won't have as much of a chance to screw up the mastering. Although, to be fair, Who's Next:DE didn't sound too bad.

http://www.petetownshend.co.uk/projects ... &zone=news

Oct 28: Tommy Deluxe 5.1


Universal / Geffen release a hybrid CD / SACD version of Tommy on Oct 28. The 'Deluxe' version features the album in stereo (taken from the original stereo masters) and 5.1 surround sound (for those with SACD compatible players) mixed by Pete from the original eight-track tapes. A DVD-A version may follow after.

The tracklisting is as follows:

Disc 1
SACD 5.1 and stereo

Overture
It's a boy
1921
Amazing journey
Sparks
Eyesight to the blind ( The hawker )
Christmas
Cousin Kevin
The acid queen
Underture
Do you think it's alright?
Fiddle about
Pinball wizard
There's a doctor
Go to the mirror!
Tommy can you hear me?
Smash the mirror
Sensation
Miracle cure
Sally Simpson
I'm free
Welcome
Tommy's holiday camp
We're not gonna take it
See me Feel me / Listening to you

DISC 2
SACD 5.1 and Stereo Out-Takes and Demos

I was
Christmas (Out-Take 3)
Cousin Kevin Model Child
Young Man Blues (Version 1)
Tommy can you hear me? (Alt. Version)
Trying to get through
Sally Simpson (Out-Takes)
Miss Simpson
Welcome (Take 2)
Tommy's holiday camp (Band's Version)
We're not gonna take it (Alt. Version)
Dogs - Part 2

Stereo Only - Pete Townshend demos

It's a boy - Demo
Amazing journey - Demo
Christmas - Demo
Do you think it's alright? - Demo
Pinball wizard - Demo

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Postby Rspaight » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:12 am

Lotsa interesting stuff there.

1) Original stereo mix. That's cool, as it provides some differentiation from the 1CD remix out there now. (It's also consistent with what they did with the Who's Next DE.) I'm sure it'll be an interesting throw-down between the DE SACD and the MFSL CD, especially if Astley continues the "Astley-lite" approach he used on Who's Next. (The MFSL disc never struck as particularly mind-blowing, so we'll see.)

2) The way I read that, there will be a single version of the Tommy DE -- a hybrid SACD release. If that's true, that'll be the first time Universal has done that. I think it's more likely we'll see a separate CD and SACD release, but you never know.

3) Dogs Part 2? What an odd thing to appear on a Tommy bonus disc. I must say, though, that the thought of a 5.1 mix of that track is oddly appealing.

4) I guess this is first Who release to reflect the death of MCA as an imprint and its replacement by Geffen. It looks strange to see the Geffen logo on Tommy. Makes no sense to me at all, but that's the music industry for ya.

Image

5) Fanboy that I am, I'm definitely on board for this one.

Ryan
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Postby lukpac » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:27 am

Let's see...

1) I've never been a huge fan of the MoFi. It's fine, but it's not great, either. While I have yet to find one that's great, I've been told vinyl is the way to hear Tommy.

2) Matt does specifically mention "hybrid", so...

3) Dogs Pt. 2 was the b-side to Pinball Wizard, and it was (apparently) cut at the same session that produced Young Man Blues. Currently out of print. Speaking of YMB, I wonder if they will get it right this time (the version on Odds & Sods isn't the version from The House That Track Built, which IMO is superior).

Interesting/disappointing that the alternate version of Eyesight To The Blind is apparently not on there.

BTW, I think it's funny how a few years ago people were bemoaning that the Who reissue program was finished, and "we got what we got". Never underestimate the power of a reissue!

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Postby Rspaight » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:34 am

Dogs Pt. 2 was the b-side to Pinball Wizard


Ah, of course. I knew there was a connection I was missing. I share your curiosity about YMB as well. That was originally intended to be on Tommy in addition to/instead of "Eyesight," wasn't it?

Interesting/disappointing that the alternate version of Eyesight To The Blind is apparently not on there.


Indeed. I hadn't noticed that. That would seem like an obvious one, wouldn't it?

BTW, I think it's funny how a few years ago people were bemoaning that the Who reissue program was finished, and "we got what we got". Never underestimate the power of a reissue!


I find it fascinating that starting with Ultimate Collection, we've been getting original mixes on all these reissues (except My Generation, of course). I wonder what the impetus behind that is. I recall hearing something around the time that Ultimate was released that Bill Levenson was the one insisting on using the original mixes for that.

I wonder how long before we get Quadrophenia on a 5.1 SACD. That could be fun.

Ryan
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Postby lukpac » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:14 pm

Yes, as far as I know, YMB was supposed to be on Tommy, at least early on.

Good catch on the original mixes. Yeah, Bill Levenson is a fan of original mixes, although I'm not sure how much he has to do with most of the Who issues. He was somewhat involved with the Ultimate Collection, but Andy McKaie is the main guy in charge at M..C...er, Geffen as far as The Who goes.

My personal take is that while remixes can be great in certain cases (no previous stereo mix, really bad original stereo mix, etc), most of the time they aren't necessary and just detract from things. It's nice to see they are headed back in the original mix direction, apparently.

Hopefully the demos will be "straight" transfers (they were two-track recordings), and not the "let's remove all separation" mixes of Another Scoop. It's too bad there are not more/different demos, as three of those (It's A Boy, Do You Think It's Alright, and Pinball Wizard) aren't very interesting. Overture, Sparks/Underture, We're Not Gonna Take It, etc would have all been better choices, IMO. Or even Success, which was never used.

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Postby Rspaight » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:28 pm

My personal take is that while remixes can be great in certain cases (no previous stereo mix, really bad original stereo mix, etc), most of the time they aren't necessary and just detract from things. It's nice to see they are headed back in the original mix direction, apparently.


I tend to agree. Perhaps the 5.1 mix allows them to get their "let's make it better than it was the first time" rocks off, and the stereo side gets left alone as a result.

On a different but somewhat related topic, it would appear that we're getting an SACD of Goodbye Yellow Brick Road on the same day, that has been described in some circles as a DE. Guess we'll see what goodies (if any) *that* has in store...

Ryan
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Postby Chris M » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:24 pm

I'm looking forward to this. AFAIK the only Tommy outtakes we have are Cousin Kevin, Model Child, the House That Track Built YMB and the butchered Astley YMB that appeared on the Worst Reissue of All Time formerly known as Odds and Sods.

Some of the titles on Disc 2 of the Tommy DE are unfamiler to me. Anyone know anything about them?

Chris

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Postby Chris M » Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:10 pm

There is a thread about the Tommy DE on SH.tv. Apparently Astley is taking the DSD and converting it to PCM so he can use no noise, etc and then going back to DSD. Sound familer? Kinda defeats the purpose of SACD in the furst place.....

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Postby Rspaight » Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:52 pm

Apparently Astley is taking the DSD and converting it to PCM so he can use no noise, etc and then going back to DSD.


Well, sorta kinda. He's using a DSD8 (links to PDF file) machine, which apparently some DSD purists deride as "8-bit PCM" because it deviates from the "1-bit purity" of "real" DSD in the interests of multichannel capability. I'd say it's a mostly academic distinction. The denizens of SH.tv like to shoot first and ask questions later about this stuff.

In any event, Who's Next showed us that even with Astley it's best not to make any sweeping judgements about the thing before you hear it. While no sonic masterpiece, it's certainly listenable.

Ryan
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Postby mikenycLI » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:02 pm

Who's lining up a promo copy, so we can hear this thing ???

I'm trying !

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Postby Xenu » Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:02 pm

Luke's good at getting promos. I'll start hunting, also.

It's kinda disappointing that we'll never get the remix sans clicks (as easy as those clicks are to remove if you know how).

-D

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Postby lukpac » Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:13 pm

I'm good at getting promos? The Stones thing doesn't count.

I don't really give a damn if Astley goes to PCM or not. All I care is how it sounds. He could convert to 8-track for all I cared, as long as it sounded good.

As for the clicks in the remix...I honestly don't care. I don't care much for that beast, and if I really want to, I can fix it myself.

BTW, how do people know what Astley is doing with this? Did he do an interview somewhere?

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Postby Rspaight » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:40 pm

Over on SH.tv, someone quoted a friend-of-a-friend who claimed to have installed the Sadie DSD8 system in Astley's studio, and that the first project was to be mastering the Tommy SACD. Sadie is pushing the thing hard, and Astley is one of Sadie's big clients, so I see no reason to doubt that.

As for analog-to-PCM-to-NoNoise-to-DSD, that's just people using their Leap-To-Conclusions mat ((TM)Office Space). (Unless you consider the DSD8 box to be a PCM conversion, which as I said is a subject of some debate.)

A more interesting question is what Pete did these 5.1 mixes to. I'm doubting it was DSD, though I suppose it's possible. More likely some sort of high-res ProTools-ish kinda thing. I really have no idea, though.

I'm with you on the larger issue in any case. Scuttlebutt on SH.tv has the 5.1 track on the new Gaucho SACD being sourced from 24/96 PCM, and I think it sounds fantastic.

Ryan
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Postby lukpac » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:19 pm

More updates...

http://www.petetownshend.co.uk/projects ... &zone=news

2 September 2003
Tommy press release

THE WHO'S CLASSIC TOMMY REMIXED BY PETE TOWNSHEND IN 5.1 SURROUND SOUND FOR HYBRID SACD RELEASE OF TWO-CD DELUXE EDITION FEATURING RARE BONUS OUTTAKES, ALTERNATE VERSIONS AND DEMOS

"Tommy can you hear me?" will be heard like never before with the hybrid SACD (Super Audio CD) release on October 28, 2003 of the double-disc Tommy - Deluxe Edition (MCA/UMe). One of the pre-eminent rock albums in history, Tommy - Deluxe Edition marks the most significant album to be first issued on a hybrid SACD, a disc which offers three formats: SACD 5.1 Surround Sound, SACD Stereo and CD Stereo. Only a hybrid SACD can be played in CD players as well as SACD-capable players. Says The Who's Pete Townshend, who digitally remixed the album from the original eight-track master tapes: "To be able to listen to Tommy in what is master quality audio, just as Roger, John, Keith and I did in the studio so many years ago, is a special experience - and completely new for fans of The Who and the album. This is what Tommy was meant to sound like and I couldn't be happier that the public will finally hear it the way it was intended."

Disc 1 features the complete original album in 5.1 Surround Sound, SACD Stereo and CD Stereo (all remastered by Jon Astley, Townshend's catalog reissue collaborator). Disc 2 brings together 12 rare or previously unreleased outtakes (such as 'I Was' and 'Miss Simpson') and alternate versions (such as for 'Tommy Can You Hear Me?,' 'We're Not Gonna Take It' and 'Christmas') in SACD 5.1, SACD and CD Stereo plus five never-before-released demos ('It's A Boy,'Amazing Journey,' 'Christmas,' 'Do You Think It's Alright?' and 'Pinball Wizard') in SACD and CD Stereo. The package also features liner notes and copies of some of Townshend's original handwritten and typed lyrics.

The first 'rock opera, 'Tommy' tells of a 'deaf, dumb, and blind kid' who witnessed traumatic events in his adolescence. Released in 1969, the album was hailed by both rock critics and the mainstream press. Life magazine wrote that 'for sheer power, invention, and brilliance of performance, Tommy outstrips anything that has ever come out of a recording studio.'

Tommy includes such classics as 'I'm Free,' 'Sensation,' 'We''re Not Gonna Take It,' 'Pinball Wizard,' 'The Acid Queen,' 'Eyesight To The Blind,' 'See Me Feel Me/Listening To You' and the 10-minute instrumental 'Underture.' Its success, bolstered by tours of Europe and the U.S. and the movie Woodstock, turned The Who into superstars. Tommy also introduced a new audience to rock music as the band played some of the world's most celebrated opera houses and luminaries such as Leonard Bernstein praised the work. Tommy has since been performed as a play, a 1975 film starring Roger Daltrey and a 1993 Broadway musical which earned five Tony Awards (the West End version was nominated for eight prestigious Olivier Awards).

A DVD-Audio version of Tommy is expected to be released at a later date.

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Postby Rspaight » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:39 pm

Wow, so it will be a single-inventory release. Sounds like Universal is getting serious about SACD.

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney