New Springsteen on DualDisc only

[hobokenlad]

I've avoided the Dual Disc problem by buying the vinyl. Very quiet, thick (180 grams?) and I'm very happy. Sure, I don't get the visuals that are on the Dual Disc, but at least I can play the audio!!

[Rspaight]

So what exactly is the problem with these? Is it that they are too thick? Or is there some other issue?

I guess I'm surprised the thickness matters that much, as our library always used to (and probably still does) cover every disc with a layer of packing tape with some anti-theft strips below it. Never had a problem!

It's not the thickness -- it's that the "CD" side isn't redbook. In order to make it function at the reduced thickness, they made the pits wider. (I think the deal is that regular CD player lasers couldn't read the shallower pits unless they made them wider.) Apparently this breaks a lot of players, but not as many as if they kept the pits Redbook-spec. (As another bonus, the "CD" side is limited to 60 minutes because of the wider pits.)

I've avoided the Dual Disc problem by buying the vinyl. Very quiet, thick (180 grams?) and I'm very happy. Sure, I don't get the visuals that are on the Dual Disc, but at least I can play the audio!!

That's what I should have done for both this and the Ben Folds. (But, fascinatingly, my Dell could read the Ben Folds with no problem. And the Dell AND the CE-775 had no problem with the Donnas DualDisc. So it's not even consistent from DualDisc to DualDisc.)

Ryan

[MK]

Yeah, if the DualDisc is giving you problems, vinyl seems like a good way to go. You can at least tape a copy from that for your car.

As soon as I can find a way to effectively rip the audio from the DVD layer and convert it into a aif/wav files, I'm going to swap out the solo performances on the DVD with the embellished performances on the CD. "Long Time Comin'" is SOOO much better without the 'purtified' touches.

[lukpac]

It's not the thickness -- it's that the "CD" side isn't redbook. In order to make it function at the reduced thickness, they made the pits wider. (I think the deal is that regular CD player lasers couldn't read the shallower pits unless they made them wider.) Apparently this breaks a lot of players, but not as many as if they kept the pits Redbook-spec. (As another bonus, the "CD" side is limited to 60 minutes because of the wider pits.)

Wow. That's really stupid.

[Rspaight]

Wow. That's really stupid.

Yep.

Absolute worst case, I can analog-rip the DVD stereo track (which I think is 16/48 ). Fortunately, I haven't found one yet that at least one of my PCs can't handle.

Ryan

[lukpac]

Is that stereo track DVD-V or DVD-A?

[Rspaight]

DVD-V. (Sony is still refusing to do anything with DVD-A.)

Ryan

[lukpac]

Couldn't you rip the audio and convert to 16/44?

[Rspaight]

Yeah, I guess that would be the next logical fallback before resorting to analog.

Ryan

[MK]

I'm still looking at some programs on the web that allow you to rip DVD-V audio tracks and convert them into wav files, but I'm not sure what the quality's like (it's not analog but they still have to do something to the audio track, don't they?) Some you have to buy, but I think there are a few that can be used as a demo/trial basis.

I loaned my disc to my brother, but when he's done with it, I'll fiddle with it, see if 1) my computer will read both sides and 2) see how well these ripping programs stack up.

[lukpac]

BeSweet does the conversion, if memory serves.

[Beatlesfan03]

It's not the thickness -- it's that the "CD" side isn't redbook. In order to make it function at the reduced thickness, they made the pits wider. (I think the deal is that regular CD player lasers couldn't read the shallower pits unless they made them wider.) Apparently this breaks a lot of players, but not as many as if they kept the pits Redbook-spec. (As another bonus, the "CD" side is limited to 60 minutes because of the wider pits.)

If the redbook side is limited to 60 minutes, how'd they get Nine Inch Nails'
"the Downward Spiral" onto the CD layer? My original redbook clocks in at 65 minutes.

Did they cut a track?

[Xenu]

Yeah. Ripping DVD audio is actually ridiculously easy. Load the DVD, open DVD Decrypter in IFO Mode, go into the "STream Processing" tab, and demux the ac3 (which is the surround track). Doom9 has several excellent guides for this. Then, use BeSweet to convert the track into...well, whatever you want.

If you'd like, I can give you step-by-step instructions.

[Rspaight]

If the redbook side is limited to 60 minutes, how'd they get Nine Inch Nails'
"the Downward Spiral" onto the CD layer? My original redbook clocks in at 65 minutes.

Did they cut a track?

Good question.

I based my statement on articles such as this one from Stereophile. If they're wrong, then I'm wrong.

Let's also reflect on why the playing time of a DualDisc's CD layer is limited to 60 minutes. To enable the disc to have two readable sides and still remain slim enough to play in most machines (except as noted above), the substrate layer of the CD side must be half the thickness (0.6mm) of the "Red Book" specification (1.2mm). The trouble with a thinner CD layer, though, is that it will generate a higher error rate for a significant number of players, which will not be able to precisely focus their lasers on the now closer pits. The workaround for this is to stretch out the data pits, which forces the player to spin the disc faster, hence the shorter playing time. "Red Book" CDs can cram up to 80 minutes of music onto a disc—a full 20 minutes more content than the CD side of a DualDisc. Beethoven's Ninth will now have to be sliced and diced.

Ryan

[Xenu]

That doesn't sound right. I don't think most CD players can "spin discs faster" even if they want to...?