Simulated sex written into Grand Theft Auto???

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MK
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Simulated sex written into Grand Theft Auto???

Postby MK » Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:15 pm

I was never a huge fan of video games (but still played my share since every person I knew was in grade school), but MAN, have things changed. People thought Mortal Kombat was too much for kids...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/15/ ... index.html

Friday, July 15, 2005; Posted: 11:02 p.m. EDT (03:02 GMT)

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Sen. Hillary Clinton pressed Thursday for a government investigation into how simulated sex cropped up in a modified version of the blockbuster criminal adventure video game "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas."

Clinton asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate the origins of a downloadable modification that allows simulated sex in the personal computer version of one of the most popular and controversial video games in history.

"We should all be deeply disturbed that a game which now permits the simulation of lewd sexual acts in an interactive format with highly realistic graphics has fallen into the hands of young people across the country," Clinton wrote in a letter to the head of the Federal Trade Commission.

Saying the problem of explicit video games was "spiraling out of control," Clinton also said she was introducing legislation that would crack down on the sale of violent and sex-laden games to minors.

The legislation would impose a $5,000 penalty on retailers who sell adult-rated video games to underage children.

Clinton asked the FTC to look into whether Grand Theft Auto's rating of "M" (Mature 17+) should be changed to the rare "AO" (Adult Only), which would threaten to crimp sales at large retail outlets.

The PlayStation2 version of "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" was the No. 1 game of 2004, selling just over 5 million copies, according to industry researcher NPD Funworld.

She requested the agency to study whether retailers' enforcement policies were adequate to keep adult-rated video games out of the hands of minors.

An FTC spokeswoman said the agency had received Clinton's letter and was reviewing it.

Clinton's comments were the latest in a chorus of criticism that has intensified since the revelation about sex scenes in the modified Grand Theft Auto. The game series has drawn numerous detractors because of its sexual and violent content.

Players who download a modification, known as "hot coffee," from the Internet can make a male character engage in various sex acts with a virtual "girlfriend." Sex is suggested in the official version of the game, but does not happen on screen.

The game's manufacturer, a subsidiary of Take-Two Interactive Software Inc. called Rockstar Games, has said hackers are responsible for the modification.

In a statement released Thursday, Rockstar said it supported the video game rating system and efforts to keep adult-rated games away from children.

But without referring to Clinton, the company said it was "disappointed by comments that misrepresent Grand Theft Auto, detracting from the innovative and artistic merits of the game."

"Unfortunately, the recent confusion only serves to suggest that games do not deserve the same treatment as other forms of creative expression," Rockstar said in its statement.

The Entertainment Software Rating Board last week launched a probe into whether the sexual minigame content was deliberately hidden in the game code and unlocked by the "hot coffee" modification, or if it was solely the result of the modification.

The "hot coffee" modification, which violates the game's software user agreement, is the result of hackers disassembling and then combining, recompiling and altering the game's source code, Rockstar said.
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Postby Rspaight » Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:40 pm

I saw a video clip of this a few weeks ago (a search of Slashdot should dredge up a link). It's rather comical, actually.

It'll be interesting to see whether it's actually in the game or completely contained in the mod. I recall that the mod was rather large, so I'm betting on the latter. In which case, all the preening is useless, since the game maker had nothing to do with it. Regardless, Clinton's looking like a goofball for getting worked up over content you have to download an unofficial mod for. I mean, anyone who can do that can download all kinds of much more explicit porn. Should Microsoft be liable for that, since most of that stuff will play in Windows Media Player? Should Windows XP be rated "Adult Only" because it will display porn if you download porn?

Even *more* interesting, though, is all the hoopla about some lame pixel-sex. I mean, this game is drenched in nihilistic violence. Which is OK, I guess, as long as no one's dick gets sucked. Which, come to think of it, is also the difference between this administration and the previous one -- a distinction Hillary Clinton of all people should appreciate.

Ryan
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Postby MK » Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:48 am

Even if it's not built into the game (and it sounds like it's not), Hilary could milk this for all it's worth because I'm betting most people won't understand the technical aspects of it, and any USA Today-type coverage they get will water it down in a way that will probably make it misleading (play game for kids, get simulated sex).


Reminds me of Dole (or was it Ginrich?) using a similar tactic in the 90's regarding inappropriate movies, except that was so half-assed, it was a joke. This case is too, in its own way, but I don't think it's blatant enough to blow up in Clinton's face.

But in the long run, it'll probably be a moot point, because by the time 2006 (or 2008) rolls around, few voters will really care.
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Postby dcooper » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:13 pm

There is pandering to the "family values" crowd and then there's Sen. Clinton. If she leans any further to the right she's going to fall over.
Dan

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Postby Dob » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:37 pm

IMO the only reason this is news is because it concerns GTA, which is the latest favorite whipping boy. I'm also guessing that most folks are assuming (and want to assume) the mod is part of the game because of GTA's unsavory reputation.
Rspaight wrote:Even *more* interesting, though, is all the hoopla about some lame pixel-sex. I mean, this game is drenched in nihilistic violence. Which is OK, I guess, as long as no one's dick gets sucked.

I think that the same folks objecting to the violence in GTA are the same ones objecting to the (alleged) sex. But I do agree with your larger point...it seems quite hypocritical and twisted for any society to have a greater tolerance of entertainment violence than entertainment sex. Without knowing anything else about a movie, I'd rather see a movie rated X for sex than one rated X for violence. The "X for violence" flick is almost guaranteed to be extremely unpleasant.
Dob
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Postby Rspaight » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:20 pm

Well, I was wrong.

Looks like the stuff actually *is* in the released game, and the mod simply unlocks it. I'll bet all companies submitting games to the ESRB are going to have to sign affidavits to the effect that there's no hidden code, or at least that they've disclosed all "easter eggs" to the ratings board. What fun!

Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Announces Conclusion of ESRB Investigation
Wednesday July 20, 4:02 pm ET

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 20, 2005--Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: TTWO - News):

* ESRB assigns "Adults Only 18+" (AO) rating for current version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas due to unauthorized third party "Hot Coffee" modification
* Rockstar Games to cease manufacture of current version of title and offer a downloadable patch to prevent modification of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for PC
* Company lowers third quarter and fiscal year guidance to reflect the expected negative impact on the title's retail performance

Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: TTWO - News) announced today that the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) has changed the rating of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas on all platforms from "Mature 17+" (M) to "Adults Only 18+" (AO) because of the so-called "hot coffee mod," an unauthorized third party modification that alters the retail version of the game. Take-Two cooperated fully with the ESRB's investigation.

Rockstar Games has ceased manufacturing of the current version of the title and will begin working on a version of the game with enhanced security to prevent the "hot coffee" modifications. This version will retain the original ESRB M-rating and is expected to be available during the Company's fourth fiscal quarter. Rockstar Games will be providing AO labels for retailers who wish to continue to sell the current version of the title.

As a result of the re-rating of the game, Take-Two is lowering guidance for the third fiscal quarter ending July 31, 2005 to $160 to $170 million in net sales and a net loss per share of $(0.40) to $(0.45) to provide reserves for the value of the title's current North American retail inventory. Accordingly, guidance for the fiscal year ending October 31, 2005 is also being lowered to $1.26 to $1.31 billion in net sales and $1.05 to $1.12 in diluted earnings per share.

"Take-Two and Rockstar Games have always worked to keep mature-themed video game content out of the hands of children and we will continue to work closely with the ESRB and community leaders to improve and better promote a reliable rating system to help consumers make informed choices about which video games are appropriate for each individual," said Paul Eibeler, Take-Two's President and Chief Executive Officer. "The ESRB's decision to re-rate a game based on an unauthorized third party modification presents a new challenge for parents, the interactive entertainment industry and anyone who distributes or consumes digital content. Rockstar Games is pleased that the investigation is now settled and they look forward to returning their focus to making innovative and groundbreaking video games for a mature audience."

The scenes depicted in the "hot coffee" modification are not playable in the retail version of the game unless the user downloads and/or installs unauthorized software that alters the content of the original retail version of the title, representing a violation of Take-Two and Rockstar's end user license agreement (EULA) and intellectual property rights. "We are deeply concerned that the publicity surrounding these unauthorized modifications has caused the game to be misrepresented to the public and has detracted from the creative merits of this award winning product," said Mr. Eibeler. Take-Two is exploring its legal options as it relates to companies that profited from creating and distributing tools for altering the content of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

Rockstar Games will be making available shortly a downloadable software patch to render Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for PC impervious to the "hot coffee" modification. Rockstar encourages parent groups and political leaders to assist with distribution of the patch to prevent the content of the modification from spreading further.

Additional quote from Slashdot:

ESRB head Patricia Vance says, "After a thorough investigation, we have concluded that sexually explicit material exists in a fully rendered, unmodified form on the final discs of all three platform versions of the game (i.e., PC CD-ROM, Xbox and PS2). However, the material was programmed by Rockstar to be inaccessible to the player and they have stated that it was never intended to be made accessible. The material can only be accessed by downloading a software patch, created by an independent third party without Rockstar's permission, which is now freely available on the internet and through console accessories. Considering the existence of the undisclosed and highly pertinent content on the final discs, compounded by the broad distribution of the third party modification, the credibility and utility of the initial ESRB rating has been seriously undermined."
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Postby MK » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:40 pm

They actually PROGRAMMED and released that shit into a kids' game? What the hell were they thinking? Seriously, considering how many cheats, extras, etc. have been unlocked in over 20 years of programming, they should have 1) realized they'd eventually be found out and 2) the shitstorm over that kind of thing.
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Postby Bennett Cerf » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:31 pm

MK wrote:They actually PROGRAMMED and released that shit into a kids' game?


But it's not a "kids' game," at least not any more than "Porky's" and "American Pie" are "kids' movies."

An M-rated video game is very much like an R-rated movie. Yes, there are plenty of kids who will get the game or see the movie, and it may even be true that they're secretly marketed to underaged teenagers, but they're clearly labeled as intended for adults.

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Postby MK » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:32 am

Ah, I see. But how much of the audience is actually over 18? I mean, when I was still buying comics, it was different from comic to comic: DC would release 'mature' titles that most kids wouldn't buy because they were very serious-minded stuff (Neil Gaiman (sp?), Alan Moore, etc.) whereas anything else that was 'mature' and packed with cartoonish superheroes and lewd, male fantasy stuff would be sought after.
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Postby Dob » Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:03 pm

Rockstar Games will be providing AO labels for retailers who wish to continue to sell the current version of the title.

Heh, they'll be sold all right. But on Ebay, not on store shelves.

I heard that Best Buy is pulling the game from the shelves...I'd bet precious few ever make it back to the manufacturer. Employees and other insiders are most likely scooping them up for resale.

Take Two is going to quit making this version? If there is a brisk aftermarket/reseller demand for the AO version, they might reconsider...in a week or so they might quietly announce that they "forgot" they had a whole bunch in a distant corner of the warehouse.

It's hard for me to imagine that this incident and the publicity is going to cost Take Two money. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that this was all planned, but nothing would shock me.
Dob

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Postby Xenu » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:47 pm

MK mentioned Mortal Kombat at the beginning of this thread. I'm younger than most of you guys are, I guess, and I was actually in grade school (or at the very end of grade school) when the whole Joe Lieberman/Mortal Kombat/sucky SNES port of the game controversy occured. I remember even then resenting the hell out of the bastard who knew what was good for me. I swore then that I'd never support Joe Lieberman for anything.

In other words, you fuck with a kid's freedom to indulge in ridiculous, cartoony violence, and you might make an enemy for life.
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