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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:48 am 
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lukpac wrote:
Wow, who would have imagined that I'd be pegging Cliff as one of the voices of reason in this thread?


Hey, I'm behind whatever decision that you make 100%. Seriously.

I know we've had our differences but that's precisely what made your forum different from Steve's. People are allowed to disagree with you here, especially on things that are subjective. It would be foolhardy and shit-disturbing for me to get into a heated argument with you on "Who's Next" (as with arguing with Steve on mastering techniques). But I do respect and appreciate that you were willing to put up with serious verbal abuse over the Enoch Powell-Eric Clapton thread. Try doing that with Steve on his thoughts on day care or telling his Gorts that the USA is indeed the most hated nation on Earth in 2005 (again, we're talking subjective issues here).

At the end of the day, this is yours and Amy's site. I think you've both been more than tolerant here. You have your reasons to not agree with SH.tv, but they are not nearly as venomous as some of the rest of us (and maybe you probably don't find SH.tv as funny or ridiculous as we do, I don't know).

In the end, the decision is best for all involved. The Napster-P2P example is excellent. If the RIAA hadn't shut down Napster, it's likely many of us wouldn't have nice lossless collections of OOP DCC's and MFSL's, boots of all sorts that we've never seen, music DVD transfers that have never been released, etc. Likewise, for those sad SH.tv foot soldiers like Grant, luvmusic, Rantz and that drugged-out retard, Prix, the new place will evolve to new levels of SH.tv mockdom and vigilance.

I still stand by my assertion that the Snakepit recently (for the most part) was becoming more of a "consumer advocacy" place against SH.tv (questioning people's expertise, Steve's "auctions" and Grant's spelling) and was less vitriolic. I think for the SH.tv trolls they would be best served filtering out the "hate" and reading the honest assessments of SH.tv, and realizing that none of this would be necessary if Steve wasn't so reluctant to allow any criticism against the party-line at his site - be it against new mastering, poor 80's CD's, Ward Cleaver fathering techniques or US foreign policy.

Cliff


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:04 am 
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I agree with your assessment of the Snakepit's recent activities, Cliff, but the "consumer advocacy" part was also MORE of a liability for Luke, and not less. In other words, it's one thing to call the SH.tv user base idiots and SH a crank, but entirely another thing to suggest that the man is embezzling user donations. Definite lawsuit territory, ya know? Whether right or wrong isn't really important when the lawyers come calling.

I think this was the right decision at the right time.

Now, we can still roast dumbasses in the fire, right? I'd hate to see a whole bunch of new users come over here and lower the quality of discussion, without the ability to flame them. :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:30 am 
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dudelsack wrote:
I agree with your assessment of the Snakepit's recent activities, Cliff, but the "consumer advocacy" part was also MORE of a liability for Luke, and not less. In other words, it's one thing to call the SH.tv user base idiots and SH a crank, but entirely another thing to suggest that the man is embezzling user donations. Definite lawsuit territory, ya know? Whether right or wrong isn't really important when the lawyers come calling.


Most defintely. And if I'm Luke, such risks are a headache one doesn't need. I actually believe that Steve is using the auction money to maintain his site. My criticism was more to do do with how the auctions were being run - as with most procedures at SH.tv, no rhyme or reason was involved, strictly flying by the seat of your pants and making up the rules as you go along.

You see, Luke, there is a silver lining here. Dudelsack and I will be releasing our newly-recorded duet of "We Are The World" next week :) .

Cliff


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:33 am 
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Just make sure Quincy Jones does the arrangement.

I think Michael Jackson might be busy, though.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:41 am 
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I was hoping we would do Ebony and Ivory, Cliff...Piscopo/Murphy style, if you please.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:53 am 
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dudelsack wrote:
Now, we can still roast dumbasses in the fire, right?

IMO, a couple of them have earned the right to be completely ignored.

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"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance" -- HL Mencken


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:17 pm 
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luvmusic wrote:
I am glad to see that so many of you have Luke's best interests at heart. :roll:

Seriously, all you want is your place to bitch and deride sh.tv. It doesn't matter to you how that reflects on Luke. You're not here to discuss music or any meaningful topics. If that was your objective, you would do it on sh.tv. You guys are pathetic and in need of serious help.
Careful! I once told these guys that.

I do think it would be better if they could channel their venomous insults into more constructive criticism. It's easy to constantly belittle those whom you disagree with, or don't like. It takes more effort to understand where another peopson is coming from.

Cliff is a very intelligent guy. But, as I was reading a couple of his threads in the snakepit, I was somewhat surprised that he really didn't seem to totally grasp the sociopolitical nuances of how things work here in the U.S., hence his constant attacking me of being everything from a racist to a neocon, to having racial confusion (which is ridiculous). Some of the guys here are probably just jerks. Is it that big a deal if I forget to use a spellchecker when I type fast? Is holding up a bunch of links to ddata and regarding them as accurate any different than someone simply making a claim? Statistics can be very misleading, and are always subject to interpretation.

Yes, many otf the people on SH.tv have issues. Some have undeniable conservative political leanings. Some don't care about years of scientific research data on the effects of interconnects on sound. Some have tons of education. Some barely made it out of high school. So what? All in all, we are having fun and genuinely connecting with others about a common interest we all have, and that is music. Some of us are buddies. Some of us hate each other. And when ther is animosity between members, there are rules in place to help keep it out of public view. That is not a bad thing, as if it wasn't there, that place would go down in flames like the snakepit, and the place would be of no use to anyone. There's nothing wrong with boundaries in life. Those who refuse to accept boundaries tend to be immature.

I have taken advantage of the lawlessness here just as anyone, but it gets old. Once the novelty of saying "shit" "ass" "fuck" and "you and your mama can kiss by black ass", and all the Hoffmanites are neo-nazis wears off, there's little else left.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:18 pm 
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OK, Grant, let's put a few issues to rest:

- I don't believe you are a racist. You do have some xenophobic issues towards Mexicans. However, I do not live in southern Arizona, so I cannot begin to understand your issues.

- You are not a neocon - that would be LeeS, Mudbone, Larry Narramore, Bob Lovely, etc. You may be a "liberal" by US standards but here in Canada, you would definitely be right of centre. Again, we're talking apples and oranges here.

- The racial confusion is just a big joke. I don't think anyone in the Snakepit actually thought you didn't know your own identity. It was an ongoing joke because of your tastes in music (which are really just based on when you grew up, black or white music, top 40, funk or rock). And, of course, because you post heaviliy on the whitest, white man's forum on the entire Interweb - SH.tv!!

Peopsons pick on you because you often contradict yourself. The only problem I've ever had with you (but it's really your business) is that you've taken so much shit from those assholes at SH.tv (including Emperor Steve's proclamation: "Not many people like you here, Grant"), yet you go back for more. I'm sure the exchange of music ideas is probably more important to you than your pride. If that's the case, you're a better person than me.

Anyway, peace out --- really!!

Cliff


Last edited by Gee Oh Are Tea on Tue May 03, 2005 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:32 pm 
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Way to ride in here and play high and mighty, Grant. Is this kind of post what we have to look forward to now in FLO 2.0? :cry:


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 3:33 pm 
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Gee Oh Are Tea wrote:
OK, Grant, let's put a few issues to rest:

- I don't believe you are a racist. You do have some xenophobic issues towards Mexicans. However, I do not live in southern Arizona, so I cannot begin to understand your issues.


I'm not xenophobic, but that's a matter of interpretation. Again, one must live down here for an extended amount of time and be part of the community to understand all of the quirks and twists of the politics. You should also understand that the worst criticism of Mexican nationals comes from Hispanics. And, believe it or not, they also have issues with skin tone and class, just like blacks do. Ironically, for show of unison for their people, they still support open borders. Democrats nowadays have taken on many attributes of what the old Republican party had before W. Bush came along, and the religious right attached themselves to the party.

Quote:
- The racial confusion is just a big joke. I don't think anyone in the Snakepit actually thought you didn't know your own identity. It was an ongoing joke because of your tastes in music (which are really just based on when you grew up, black or white music, top 40, funk or rock). And, of course, because you post heaviliy on the whitest, white man's forum on the entire Interweb - SH.tv!!


I do realize that it is a running joke, I always have, and joke about it myself from time to time. But after being accused of it time and time again in real life gets on my nerves, because there are people out there who expect those of a certain race to act stereotypically. Some people refuse to accept that culture matters more than race. Usually, it is racists that fail to understand these things.

Quote:
Peopsons pick on you because you often contradict yourself. The only problem I've ever had with you (but it's really your business) is that you've taken so much shit from those assholes at SH.tv (including Emperor Steve's proclamation: "Not many people like you here, Grant"), yet you go back for more. I'm sure the exchange of music ideas is probably more important to you than your pride. If that's the case, you're a better person than me.


I get very mixed messages about that from everyone I talk to there, so I ignore it all. Some like me, some don't. As a guy who is used to being the odd one out, the only ink spot in the cream, I am used to being in places where i'm not wanted or liked. When you are used to that type of situation, you tend to ignore it. I can allow myself to become paranoid, I can call up something called pride and leave, or ignore whatever the truth may be, one way or the other, and stay for the positive aspects of that forum. And, maybe my presence there serves to spite those who want me out of there. I also suspect that a few of those who want me out of there post in the snakepit to release their hostility.

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Anyway, peace out --- really!!

Sorry if I insulted you all those months ago. It was nothing personal.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 3:45 pm 
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dudelsack wrote:
Way to ride in here and play high and mighty, Grant. Is this kind of post what we have to look forward to now in FLO 2.0? :cry:
Gee O Are Tee Eee, or however he writes it, has started up his own little snakepit so you guys can further go underground. You can have all the fun you want there. I'll bet that even fewer people will pay attention. You guys can tussle in the mud until you get tired of being your own audience. The gorts and other SH people may have had this place under survaillence, but I don't think many, if any, will bother to go to the new site. They'll probably even have whole forums dedicated to their favorite peopsons. Who cares.

Don't think I had anythingh to do with the snakepit being locked. I think you guys did it to yourselves, to be honest. You have an issue with it, remember that this is Luke and Amy's site.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 3:59 pm 
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Grant, if you had been paying attention to my posts, I was no huge fan of COLA or EACD, or their party tricks. Nor do I engage willy-nilly in SH-bashing (though, if you think that Eddie and the Cruisers won't go and snitch on COLA's new site, you've got another thing coming). You missed my point entirely.
Never mind.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:15 pm 
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Grant, better to just drop this one.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:44 pm 
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Grant wrote:
You guys can tussle in the mud until you get tired of being your own audience. The gorts and other SH people may have had this place under survaillence, but I don't think many, if any, will bother to go to the new site. They'll probably even have whole forums dedicated to their favorite peopsons. Who cares.

Don't think I had anythingh to do with the snakepit being locked. I think you guys did it to yourselves, to be honest. You have an issue with it, remember that this is Luke and Amy's site.


Grant, you obviously do care about the new forum. A lot. How many fucking posts have placed in this thread? Have you noticed that everyone who is interested in the new forum exited this FLO thread some time back? YOU are the only one hammering away, ad infinitum, like the obsessed simpleton you are.

As far as the new place is concerned, we can all be rest assured that Mr. Bojangles will be emailing his surrogate daddy every scrap of perceived insult and innuendo his tiny little mind can (half-)digest.

But we do hope to see you there, Grant. Every village needs its idiot, after all, and you do have a singular talent for combining two loathsome traits:

1) You have nothing of interest to say, and

2) point 1 notwithstanding, you still can't shut the fuck up.


Party tricks, dudelsack?

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 5:37 pm 
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The gorts and other SH people may have had this place under survaillence, but I don't think many, if any, will bother to go to the new site.


They've already blocked the new site's referrer ID.

Ryan

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