Rancid Snakepit

[Dob]

But isn't a troll also someone who constantly thread craps, scolds the other posters, and has an agenda to close down the whole thread section?

Hahahahahahah! Think about it...

I guess your avatar makes you a "troll" as far as the Bushies are concerned. Are you bothered by that, or proud of it?

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

Worst thing is, Luke gives the appearance that he does indeed cave into the likes of Grant and prix. It's his personal decision to close the forum, surely, but the gloating emanating from Grant and prix is Luke's cross to bear, and one he brings on himself. Spin it any way you wish, but the timing sure is interesting, isn't it? However indirectly or, uh, "coincidentally," Luke has caved into two SHite trolls. There can be little doubt that Hoffman, Dave NightGorf, Ed Bishop, LeeS, et al. are indeed celebrating Luke's decision and patting themselves on the back for such a job well done. Of course I don't believe that is what Luke intended, but he nevertheless has to live with the consequences of his actions.

As I said, I really don't give a fuck. I'll post a new URL within the hour, and that ought to put a stop to all of this "controversy."

Krabapple, all I meant by "dourness" and "reluctance" is just that. Luke was never a gleeful contributor to the Snakepit in the first place, and he's never made it a secret that he wasn't too thrilled with the content of the Snakepit. Moreover, he felt such nonsense sullied his Who and Clapton remaster threads. I don't believe that he would disagree with this statement.

FLO was obviously conceived out of necessity -- Luke being banned from SHtv -- and its purpose was to be nothing more or less than SHtv without the heavyhanded censorship. Otherwise, the mentality and content was very much the same (boomer rock, boomer rock, and more boomer rock). Fine and dandy -- that's what he likes and that's what he wants.

It is a shame, though, that the past week at FLO has seen Luke adopting SHtv-like tactics, such as deleting posts that people take the time to write, Amy uncomprehendingly denouncing my dialectical photo triptychs as "nonsense," on and on. Yes, it's their forum; they're under no obligation to host anything they don't want to host, but it is too bad (I think) that Luke couldn't have gone about this in a better way.

[Dob]

Yeah I agree that deliberate thread crapping is trolling.

OK. We can leave it at that. It makes things more cut and dried...no need to parse opinions for disruptive intent and whether or not the poster "actually believed it."

You see, there is no need for this sort of thread.

...please get on with your life and start discussing something else for christ sake.

[czeskleba]

Amy uncomprehendingly denouncing my dialectical photo triptychs as "nonsense,"

I haven't read her comment, but isn't it possible she does comprehend them but used the term "nonsense" as a critical judgment on their aesthetic worth?

(I think) that Luke couldn't have gone about this in a better way.

Not trying to be a smartass, but what would have been a better way to have done things in this case?

[czeskleba]

OK. We can leave it at that. It makes things more cut and dried...no need to parse opinions for disruptive intent and whether or not the poster "actually believed it."

You see, there is no need for this sort of thread.

...please get on with your life and start discussing something else for christ sake.

I agree those quotes sound trollish, thanks for digging up examples. I guess then that the mistake folks made was to feed the trolls. From the bits I glanced at in those threads, there were regulars who got into debates, pissing matches and insult contests with "Rantz", thus escalating the situation.

[Dob]

I guess then that the mistake folks made was to feed the trolls.

Yeah. Hindsight is 20/20.

...there were regulars who got into debates, pissing matches and insult contests....

When you actually enjoy that sort of thing, it's hard to lay off. Especially if the opposition is grooving fastballs down the middle of the plate.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

I haven't read her comment, but isn't it possible she does comprehend them but used the term "nonsense" as a critical judgment on their aesthetic worth?

Sadly, no, it was not an aesthetic judgement she was offering. Actually what she said is this:

I am going to go one step farther.

The posting of inline images for the reason of just posting inline images is going to stop.

It's a waste of storage space, and really time. Since Luke shouldn't have to police what is posted.

Correction: I have never posted anything "for the reason of just posting."

As for what Luke could or could not have done, I repeat: I don't fucking care what Luke does or doesn't do. He made his decision; it also happens to be in accordance with the wishes of a couple shitty little trolls. Draw your own conclusion. Whatever Luke's motivation/reasoning happens to be, the trolls still got their way. That is the inescapable perception. But that is his problem (if indeed he sees it as one; perhaps he doesn't care -- and more power to him, if that is the case), not anyone else's.

Ess Ay Cee Dee and I are putting the final touches on the new forum. Almost there.....

[lukpac]

However indirectly or, uh, "coincidentally," Luke has caved into two SHite trolls. There can be little doubt that Hoffman, Dave NightGorf, Ed Bishop, LeeS, et al. are indeed celebrating Luke's decision and patting themselves on the back for such a job well done. Of course I don't believe that is what Luke intended, but he nevertheless has to live with the consequences of his actions.

Trust me - if I had "caved in" it would have been long ago, and not because of some idiot here.

FLO was obviously conceived out of necessity -- Luke being banned from SHtv

More like "Luke being fed up with SHtv". If I had wanted to go back I could and would have done that. Heck, I did once before. I finally just got sick of it, though.

and its purpose was to be nothing more or less than SHtv without the heavyhanded censorship. Otherwise, the mentality and content was very much the same (boomer rock, boomer rock, and more boomer rock). Fine and dandy -- that's what he likes and that's what he wants.

Pretty much. The philosophy behind FLO was/is that you shouldn't have to worry about speaking out/disagreeing with me/etc. It was *not*, however, "let's bash SHtv". Yeah, I let that go on because I'd rather err on the side of free speech, but it finally got to be too much.

but it is too bad (I think) that Luke couldn't have gone about this in a better way.

It finally got to the point that everyone seemed to think that the Snakepit was their's to do as they pleased. Attempts to say "enough is enough" were met with ridicule. Whatever. This is where we stand.

Keep in mind, when I put the Snakepit on "vacation" my thought was that it could come back. That is looking less and less likely, though.

[Grant]

Luke does not "cave in to anyone. He does what he wants. I've known him long enough to know that much.

[krabapple]

As for inline images and such, I thought we were already into the 'corrective' period on those.

Yes...but IMO, that incident put Luke and Amy one step closer to being "sick of it all." And Amy's post would have made that clear to anyone who was "watching and waiting."

Two days after Amy's post, luvmusic shows up. A day or so later, Rantz follows. In all the months that the Snakepit has been active, the only SHtv folks who have tussled with us have been Prix and Grant IIRC. Two more showing up, when they showed up, and setting up residence as Snakepit trolls, can't be a coincidence.

Did anyone else get the impression that Rantz was digging in like he was a man on a mission? I can't remember Prix or Grant ever taking the Snakepit that seriously.

Dunno about the mission, but obviously 'Leppo' has been running recon between the two forums for the last few days.

Anyway I don't figure Luke is influenced by the Leppos of the world in this...as much as by simply being tired of the Snakepit. He';ll correct me if I'm wrong of course.

[krabapple]

IME,some of SNLs' *best* stuff is in those last few minutes...I guess they figure no one's watching by that time, so the weird shit goes there -- like when Jim Carrey hosted, the last skit was a fantastic one about a guy selling crank as a weight-loss supplement...'Ride the Snake'...

NO DIVING SIR!

IIRC that one came near the top of the show...and it was *funny*, but the "Jimmy Tango's Fatbusters' skit was *genius*.

[krabapple]

Worst thing is, Luke gives the appearance that he does indeed cave into the likes of Grant and prix. It's his personal decision to close the forum, surely, but the gloating emanating from Grant and prix is Luke's cross to bear, and one he brings on himself. Spin it any way you wish, but the timing sure is interesting, isn't it? However indirectly or, uh, "coincidentally," Luke has caved into two SHite trolls. There can be little doubt that Hoffman, Dave NightGorf, Ed Bishop, LeeS, et al. are indeed celebrating Luke's decision and patting themselves on the back for such a job well done. Of course I don't believe that is what Luke intended, but he nevertheless has to live with the consequences of his actions.

As I said, I really don't give a fuck. I'll post a new URL within the hour, and that ought to put a stop to all of this "controversy."

It's a good idea...SHTv is absurd enough to deserve its *own* parody/takedown site.

Krabapple, all I meant by "dourness" and "reluctance" is just that. Luke was never a gleeful contributor to the Snakepit in the first place, and he's never made it a secret that he wasn't too thrilled with the content of the Snakepit. Moreover, he felt such nonsense sullied his Who and Clapton remaster threads. I don't believe that he would disagree with this statement.

I've seen Luke join in the spirit of things. I'm also someone who's occasionally (though not for some time now) questioned the tone of the Snakepit. It's not like anyone has to always love or always hate the Snakepit, is it?

I'm *glad* Luke split off the Snakepit from other threads, about remasters or otherwise. Jeebus, what a chore FLO wouldn't been to wade through if every sub-forum was allowed to morph into an SHTv bitch-slap.

FLO was obviously conceived out of necessity -- Luke being banned from SHtv -- and its purpose was to be nothing more or less than SHtv without the heavyhanded censorship. Otherwise, the mentality and content was very much the same (boomer rock, boomer rock, and more boomer rock). Fine and dandy -- that's what he likes and that's what he wants.

It is a shame, though, that the past week at FLO has seen Luke adopting SHtv-like tactics, such as deleting posts that people take the time to write, Amy uncomprehendingly denouncing my dialectical photo triptychs as "nonsense," on and on. Yes, it's their forum; they're under no obligation to host anything they don't want to host, but it is too bad (I think) that Luke couldn't have gone about this in a better way.

Huge inline photo collages not only 'endanger' people who read FLO at uptight workplaces, they also suck up bandwidth. I'd much rather that be used for wavforms.

Anyway, in perfect hindsight it's obvious that the SHtv razzing would eventually need its *own* dedicated site -- it metastasized *that* much.
Now's as good a time as any.

[luvmusic]

I am glad to see that so many of you have Luke's best interests at heart.

Seriously, all you want is your place to bitch and deride sh.tv. It doesn't matter to you how that reflects on Luke. You're not here to discuss music or any meaningful topics. If that was your objective, you would do it on sh.tv. You guys are pathetic and in need of serious help.

[Gee Oh Are Tea]

You, my friend, are a seer. Like Nostradamus. Or maybe Nostradumbass.

This is precisely why an alternative "Snakepit" is required. There has got to be a place for Smarmy et al to make me laugh so hard.

We've gotta come up with a creative name. Any suggestions?

- The Dustbin Hoffman Forums
- Audio Infidelity
- The Lovely Mudbone Hoffman Forums

OK, I'm reaching now.

Cliff

[lukpac]

Wow, who would have imagined that I'd be pegging Cliff as one of the voices of reason in this thread?