The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Expect plenty of disagreement. Just keep it civil.
User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4585
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Postby lukpac » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:52 pm

Lance Hall wrote:Eh, I'd think most people would agree the pendulum is pretty far left of center right now.


Define "most people". And "pretty far left of center". How is anything that Obama has done "pretty far left of center"?

Lance Hall wrote:Pretty dang good so far. Libertarians are on more and more ballots every year, gaining votes, and have actually won in a few places.


Uh huh.

As I've said before, no third party is going to make any significant ground as long as voting happens via a plurality.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

User avatar
Rspaight
Posts: 4384
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:48 am
Location: The Reality-Based Community
Contact:

Re: The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Postby Rspaight » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:21 pm

Eh, I'd think most people would agree the pendulum is pretty far left of center right now. Maybe you guys up in Wisconsin would call Obama moderate-centrist but that's because y'all live in your own little ideological bubble like the Berkley crowd and the People's Republic of Massachusets.


Heh. Actually, I'm in what some polls suggest is the reddest state in the Union. No ideological bubble here -- most people around here are fire-breathing Glenn Beck fans who actually believe phrases like "Berkeley crowd" and "People's Republic of Massachusetts" are relevant to reality.

That doesn't change the fact that by any objective standard Obama is at best a centrist. Comparing him to European socialism, let alone Stalinist totalitarianism, is a joke. Health reform is going to funnel billions of dollars to private insurance companies through coverage mandates with no public option -- that's supposed to be creeping Communism? (There are good things in the health reform law that might lightly inconvenience insurance companies, like requiring coverage for pre-existing conditions, but decisions will by and large continue to be made on the basis of profit, not health. So health insurance companies will continue to pull shit like not covering meds for my friend with cancer because it wouldn't be profitable.)

Corporate interests are in no danger from the Obama administration. The primary difference between him and a Republican administration is that Obama pays lip service to progressive causes and occasionally throws them a bone while pursuing a corporate-friendly agenda, while Republican administrations are openly hostile to progressive causes while pursuing a corporate-friendly agenda.
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

Bennett Cerf
Posts: 736
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:54 pm

Re: The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Postby Bennett Cerf » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:35 pm

Lance Hall wrote:Maybe you guys up in Wisconsin would call Obama moderate-centrist but that's because y'all live in your own little ideological bubble like the Berkley crowd and the People's Republic of Massachusets.


Do you have a list handy of the parts of America which aren't in their own little ideological bubbles?

User avatar
Lance Hall
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:41 pm
Location: Fort Worth, Tx
Contact:

Re: The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Postby Lance Hall » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:46 pm

I just said he was a left-wing corporatist, never said Marxist or Communist. People use the nastier terms just cause it's easy. People are often lazy, like labeling people racists just cause they don't support Obama. I've read tons of commentary posts at the CNN website that show this typical response taken from page 1 of the Leftist Handbook.

Liberals can be tainted by corporate influence just like anyone else.

A good example of left-wing corporatism is the Ethanol Lobby helped by Sen. Tom Harkin. It takes almost as much energy to produce Ethanol from Corn as the energy you get from the resulting Ethanol. Also Ethanol has been proven to be corrosive to gasoline engine systems. A certain city had to dump their "green" ethanol fleet because it was costing too much to repair the damage caused. Furthermore Ethanol has been proven to reduce fuel efficiency off-setting any real benefit. It's nothing more than a multi-billions dollar transfer to the corporate corn farms, a scam really.

Another example are all these Banking insiders that are now part of the Obama administration. I seriously FEAR (and Liberals should also) that we are gonna see the disasterous Fannie/Freddy policy model and regulation expanded to even more sectors of the Economy. The Dems were so balls-deep in that mess, using like a Trillion dollars to buy votes (free mortgages), allowing the whole damn thing to spiral out of control to such a degree, affecting so much of the rest of the system that we are basically in a Depression now. We could have just bought rural housing (with free and clear titles) for all those people and avoided what is going on now. I can't wait for Congressional Hearings on this one cause this mess stretches back to the 1980s IIRC.

It's my personal view that at it's inception it was a scam to start with and even more money we will never know about has lined the pockets of certain connected people and groups for 20+ years. You see kids, this is what happens when you politicise agencies, corporations, and institutions and what is now being ramped up exponentially from the President on down IMO.

Everyone knows most everyone up there in DC is tainted to some degree. There are no statesmen anymore. Republicans don't really hide the fact they favor anything beneficial to corporations. Democrats only pretend to be against corporate interests.

Thank you for reading and considering.

User avatar
Lance Hall
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:41 pm
Location: Fort Worth, Tx
Contact:

Re: The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Postby Lance Hall » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:14 pm

Rspaight wrote:Obama is at best a centrist.


Hahaha, after the mid-terms certainly, just like Clinton. Forget the Bush "Miss me yet?" T-shirts... gimme the Clinton "Miss me yet?" T-shirts.

Maybe he'll get religion and do a John F. Kennedy and actually come out for mild personal AND capitol gains tax cuts... but I won't be holding my breath. He's gonna HAVE to do something to actually shift some money back to consumers and the real economy cause Stimulis is just stimu-miss at this point.

Yeah, ya got "free" (not really) health care but now because of the burdern on the Economy there's a permanent 9% unemployment rate and now creepy Uncle Larry and Cousin Joe are gonna have to live with you indefinitely. Thumbs Up, Dems!

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4585
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Postby lukpac » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:30 am

Lance Hall wrote:A good example of left-wing corporatism is the Ethanol Lobby helped by Sen. Tom Harkin. It takes almost as much energy to produce Ethanol from Corn as the energy you get from the resulting Ethanol. Also Ethanol has been proven to be corrosive to gasoline engine systems. A certain city had to dump their "green" ethanol fleet because it was costing too much to repair the damage caused. Furthermore Ethanol has been proven to reduce fuel efficiency off-setting any real benefit. It's nothing more than a multi-billions dollar transfer to the corporate corn farms, a scam really.


That's "left-wing"? The *true* "left-wing" people I know are aware of the issues with ethanol from corn and know that there are other means of ethanol production that yield far more energy.

Excuse me while I make Uncle Larry's bed.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

Bennett Cerf
Posts: 736
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:54 pm

Re: The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Postby Bennett Cerf » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:50 pm

Another candidate for 2012?


Iowa GOP committeewoman says she believes Obama is a Muslim

A poll last week showed that 20 percent of Americans falsely believe that President Barack Obama is Muslim. Now an Iowa Republican national committeewoman interjects herself in the debate.

Iowa’s Republican national committeewoman said today that she believes President Barack Obama is truly a Muslim, contradicting his earlier statements that he’s a Christian.

Image

This screen shot shows Kim Lehman's Twitter post about President Barack Obama's religious faith.

Kim Lehman, who is one of Iowa’s two national Republican Committee members, may be one of the first national committee members to publicly state she believes Obama is a Muslim.

In a speech in Egypt in June 2009, Obama said he is a Christian. But Lehman said the speech “just had the appearance that he was aligning himself with the Muslims.”

Lehman in a telephone interview this morning said what matters is not her personal view that Obama is a Muslim, but his own answer to the issue.

“He’s the one that the news is about. It isn’t about me. Call the president. … Say, ‘Are you a Christian or not?’” Lehman said. “If I’m wrong, I’m more than happy to say, ‘Oh, I’m wrong.”

Lehman began to attract attention when she posted a Twitter message last week in response to a Politico news article about a Pew poll that shows 31 percent of Republicans and 10 percent of Democrats believe Obama is a Muslim. The Politico article pointed out that Obama — whose father was raised as a Muslim — has repeatedly found his faith questioned, and has “confronted the rumors head-on.”

“@politico you’re funny. They must pay you a lot to protect Obama. BTW he personally told the muslims that he IS a muslim. Read his lips,” Lehman said on her Twitter page on Thursday.

This morning, Lehman said she was referring to an Obama speech in Cairo last summer in which he reached out to Muslims “to seek a new beginning.” In that speech, he makes no comment about being Muslim, a transcript shows.

Lehman said she objected to Obama’s speech because “it just had a sense of embracing or aligning with the Muslims. I don’t know. It was unnecessary the stuff he said. That’s the whole point.”

Lehman said she would never give anyone the impression that she is anything but a Christian.

“I don’t give myself an appearance to the Muslims that I am aligning myself with the Muslims. I am strictly a Christian. I believe that. I stand by that. I’ll die by that,” she said.

Again, she repeated that reporters, including the one from the Huffington Post who also called this morning, should be questioning Obama, not her.

“He’s the one that should be asked the question, ‘Look, the country’s confused, President. You went over there. We know what you said before but things have changed. What’s your position. Are you a Christian? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven because that’s what the Christian faith believes. It’s the defining difference between Christianity and other religions.”

Derrick Plummer, the Democratic National Committee’s Midwest regional press secretary, said: “We have no comment regarding her statement.”

The Register is seeking comment from the White House.

Last week, when a reporter asked Deputy Press Secretary Bill Burton about the Pew poll, Burton answered that Obama is obviously a Christian.

“Well, I think you have to understand that for most Americans, they’re not reading a lot in the news about what religion the president is and anything other — what they’re focused on is, you know, what you guys are focused on, which is important issues like what’s happening in Iraq and Afghanistan, what’s going on in the economy, what are we doing to create jobs — all these different issues,” Burton said.

“And so the president is obviously a — is Christian. He prays every day. He communicates with his religious advisor every single day. There’s a group of pastors that he takes counsel from on a regular basis. And his faith is very important to him, but it’s not something that is a topic of conversation every single day.”

Click here for a transcript of the speech. In it, Obama again identified himself as a Christian.

“Now part of this conviction is rooted in my own experience. I’m a Christian, but my father came from a Kenyan family that includes generations of Muslims. As a boy, I spent several years in Indonesia and heard the call of the azaan at the break of dawn and at the fall of dusk. As a young man, I worked in Chicago communities where many found dignity and peace in their Muslim faith. As a student of history, I also know civilization’s debt to Islam,” he said.

Obama has addressed the issue of his faith multiple times, news articles show.

In an interview with Christianity Today in January 2008, he talked about his belief in Jesus Christ.

“I am a Christian, and I am a devout Christian. I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that that faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life. But most importantly, I believe in the example that Jesus set by feeding the hungry and healing the sick and always prioritizing the least of these over the powerful. I didn’t ‘fall out in church’ as they say, but there was a very strong awakening in me of the importance of these issues in my life. I didn’t want to walk alone on this journey. Accepting Jesus Christ in my life has been a powerful guide for my conduct and my values and my ideals.”

User avatar
Rspaight
Posts: 4384
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:48 am
Location: The Reality-Based Community
Contact:

Re: The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Postby Rspaight » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:50 am

I'm growing weary of so much being dependent on which invisible sky wizard our leaders profess belief in.
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

David R. Modny
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:58 am
Location: Parma, OH

Re: The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Postby David R. Modny » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:23 am

Rspaight wrote:I'm growing weary of so much being dependent on which invisible sky wizard our leaders profess belief in.


Personally, I think the bulk of them could actually give a rat's patootie over the whole idea of deities, religion and its many variants. They just know that "Christianity" is the magic hot button to nudge a whole lot of folks to the voting booth. In most sane democratic societies, it's a political anchor. In America, it's a badge.


The shame is...that it trivializes and cheapens what faith, spirituality and even religious affiliation *should* be all about. That is, it turns a very personal experience into a mass [often hysterical] political recruiting tool -- touting exclusive membership.

User avatar
Jeff T.
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:28 am
Location: Blueberry Hill

Re: The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Postby Jeff T. » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:55 pm

Yes, but even the so-called Christians have now seen the light, and are not so sure that they are not simply being used for their dollars and votes. They now know that they are being used. So the hot button issues will still be brought up as a tool, but I believe that religion, in the name of Religion, etc. is fading a bit or fading fast.

The young kids growing up are more cynical and are connected up so well, they see through the bible thumpers at break-neck speed.

I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said: "Jesus called..... he wants his religion back"

I expect a more general and vague message re: family values, or moral responsibility. My gut feeling is that the Republican party is still in deep trouble, and that the majority of America does indeed believe that our current problems were caused by them, and Bush's stolen 8 years in office.

People don't forget that easy.

David R. Modny
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:58 am
Location: Parma, OH

Re: The 2012 Republican Nominee?

Postby David R. Modny » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:14 am

Jeff T. wrote:Yes, but even the so-called Christians have now seen the light, and are not so sure that they are not simply being used for their dollars and votes. They now know that they are being used. So the hot button issues will still be brought up as a tool, but I believe that religion, in the name of Religion, etc. is fading a bit or fading fast.

The young kids growing up are more cynical and are connected up so well, they see through the bible thumpers at break-neck speed.

I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said: "Jesus called..... he wants his religion back"


As much as I'd like to believe this, I'm still convinced that the stranglehold religion has over politics in middle America is as alive and well as ever. If this trend changes in the future, I hope I live long enough to see it.


My gut feeling is that the Republican party is still in deep trouble, and that the majority of America does indeed believe that our current problems were caused by them, and Bush's stolen 8 years in office.

People don't forget that easy.


If they're in deep trouble, the current polls for the upcoming election don't seem to be filling me with any great sense of ease to the contrary. Blame it on the laziness of the voting masses (e.g. the blind embracing of Tea Party mania), and the usual fatigue that plagues all midterm incumbent parties, but I'm not so sure anymore that a good bulk of voting Americans even know their left foot from their right [cynical hat on]. Never mind their collective memories. Again, if it's trending the other direction in the big picture, I hope I live long enough to see it. That is, for all the good that people do, I'm still witnessing a lot of wholesale greed, ugliness and lack of compassion where it shouldn't be.