Godless Dems

[lukpac]

I can't say I'm surprised, but this is still pathetic on many levels. This story sounds like a bunch of bull, but as with the "Obama is a Muslim" talking point, what would be the problem if it wasn't?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... uses-stir/

(CNN) — The already-contentious North Carolina Senate race took a brutal turn Wednesday after incumbent Sen. Elizabeth Dole released a television ad suggesting challenger Kay Hagan is "Godless."

“A leader of the Godless Americans PAC recently held a secret fundraiser for Kay Hagan,” the 30-second ad says before showing clips from members of the group declaring God and Jesus do not exist.

“Godless Americans and Kay Hagan. She hid from cameras. Took godless money,” the ad's narrator also says. “What did Kay Hagan promise in return?”

The ad ends with an unidentified female voice declaring, "There is no God."

The Dole campaign says it's basing its charge on Hagan's attendance at a fundraiser that was in the home of an advisor to the Godless Americans’ political action committee, a group that promotes rights for atheists.

In a conference call with reporters Wednesday, Hagan said she has never heard of the Godless PAC "before Lydie Dole sent out a press release on this," and said the fundraiser in question had more than 40 hosts, including Sen. John Kerry. She also said she has contacted her lawyers to issue a cease-and-desist order on the commercial.

"I am absolutely appalled at Elizabeth Dole's vile tactics," Hagan said. “This is politics of the worst kind, and I know it has been rejected by North Carolinians at every level. It is so unbecoming of a woman like Elizabeth Dole. This is a fabricated, pathetic ad."

Hagan went on to strongly defend her faith: "I am a Sunday school teacher, I am an elder at First Presbyterian Church in Greensboro, my family has been going to this church for over 100 years, I have raised my children there. I have been involved in youth missions."

A National Republican Senatorial Committee spokesman defended the ad.

"Kay Hagan recently attended a fundraiser held in the home of a founding member of the Godless Americans PAC," Online Communications Director John Randall said. "Now Hagan believes it is unfair to associate her with the group even though the soiree raised her thousands of dollars in campaign cash. I guess money is more important to Hagan than principles."

Recent polls suggest Hagan — a Democratic state senator from Greensboro who began the race at a major money disadvantage to Dole — is now leading the incumbent slightly with only days remaining before Election Day.

[David R. Modny]

Another reason I hope that fear and division may finally be on their way out in this country...along with Dole's campaign.

Combined with the Stevens saga, the cloture-friendly majority actually seems within our reach these days.

[Jeff T.]

It should be illegal to mention God or religion in running for government office.

[David R. Modny]

It should be illegal to mention God or religion in running for government office.

The irony is that in many other democratic societies, it pretty much *is* the kiss of death for a political campaign to bring up religion. Here, it's seen as some sort of badge. Of course, that's only if it's a Christian god that the candidate is referencing. Anything else might as well be illegal in terms of our nation's own version of the political kiss of death. Sad...for a country founded on freedom, tolerance and diversity. Regardless, you're right. The two -- politics and religion -- should remain separate entities and, more importantly, shouldn't solely serve as some sort of moral and ethical badge of honor in the case of the latter.

When one reads stuff like "1 in 4 Texans believe that Obama is a Muslim," as if it was some sort of heinous thing (never mind that it's not even true), it's easy to see that we still have a long way to go in fulfilling our nation's ideals.

http://blogs.forbes.com/trailwatch/2008 ... of-te.html

[Jeff T.]

I can't quite figure out if conservatism (or lack of tolerance might be the better description) is on the way up or not. We always seem to be one step forward and one back before making a single half step forward.

In a year when a black is in the lead to win the US Presidency, and medical pot available in some states, and gay marriage is legal in a couple of states, we are seeing serious attempt to over turn Roe vs. Wade.

On the ballet in California is Prop 8 which is a measure for a constitutional amendment against gay marriage in California (which has been legal since June I think). It is split down the middle and a tough one to predict and both sides spending record amounts on the passage and also on defeating this measure.

But in just a few days we'll have a much clearer picture of just how bad off we are, or what potential we have to get back to the most important issues facing us.

I still blame Ralph Reed for so much of the religious right mixing up politics and religion in the name of Jesus. And I hope he is truly finished with politics as mush as Lee Atwater sure is.

[Rspaight]

What's pathetic about this whole thing is that both candidates treat people who don't happen to believe in their god as subhuman lepers.

We may be on the verge of a black President, but other forms of ignorant division remain in full force.

[David R. Modny]

What's pathetic about this whole thing is that both candidates treat people who don't happen to believe in their god as subhuman lepers.

At any point has Obama personally used religious fear and division, in terms of his own Christian faith, as a tool for the exclusion of others? Just curious. That is (in Obama's case), I wasn't aware of any specific examples of the above.

In fact, this is what I found on him addressing the subjects of faith and tolerance. Seems pretty inclusive to me.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfa ... ligio.html

"While affirming his own Christianity as well as his belief in separation of church and state, he called on secularists to respect religion. He also said this: "In fact, because I do not believe that religious people have a monopoly on morality , I would rather have someone who is grounded in morality and ethics, and who is also secular, affirm their morality and ethics and values without pretending that they're some one they're not . . . Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism. Have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers."

[Jeff T.]

What's pathetic about this whole thing is that both candidates treat people who don't happen to believe in their god as subhuman lepers.

At any point has Obama personally used religious fear and division, in terms of his own Christian faith, as a tool for the exclusion of others? Just curious. That is (in Obama's case), I wasn't aware of any specific examples of the above.

I think Rspaight is speaking of Sen. Elizabeth Dole and challenger, and not the candidates we have on our minds this moment.

[David R. Modny]

What's pathetic about this whole thing is that both candidates treat people who don't happen to believe in their god as subhuman lepers.

At any point has Obama personally used religious fear and division, in terms of his own Christian faith, as a tool for the exclusion of others? Just curious. That is (in Obama's case), I wasn't aware of any specific examples of the above.

I think Rspaight is speaking of Sen. Elizabeth Dole and challenger, and not the candidates we have on our minds this moment.

Ah yes...I see. I forgot how this whole dialogue started out! My bad, Ryan.

[Jeff T.]

Maybe it was me dragging the thread slightly off topic with all that other stuff I was blabbering on about. I tend to do that thinking it adds to the conversation.... and it might not.

[Rspaight]

Yes, I was talking about the NC candidates. That's what I get for commenting on the original post without quoting it.

Obama had a big tour last year (that he didn't actually appear at as far as I can recall) that was heavily gospel-themed and intended to get the black evangelical vote behind him. One of the speakers on that show was one of those "ex-gay" yahoos, and Obama tried to defend his inclusion (poorly, in my opinion) with something along the lines of "I don't want to deny black homophobes at place at the table because even though they're wrong, there's a lot of them" (not those exact words, of course). That's the closest he's come to wielding religion as a cudgel, and viewed against the excesses of most candidates, that's pretty minor stuff.

The fact that he hasn't responded to the persistent "he's a Muslim" rumors with a speech angrily denying he's a dirty Muslim speaks volumes.