More McCain smoke and mirrors

Expect plenty of disagreement. Just keep it civil.
David R. Modny
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:58 am
Location: Parma, OH

More McCain smoke and mirrors

Postby David R. Modny » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:28 pm

This is an obvious tactic from McCain. Criss-cross. If Obama accepts, then McCain looks like he's "taking charge" of the situation (with Obama *now* following). If Obama declines, then McCain will claim that Obama is "putting politics before the economy." Really bush-league stuff. Typical Republican stuff.

And, judging by today's ABC poll, an act of desperation...



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080924/ap_on_el_pr/mccain


McCain seeks to delay debate to focus on economy

By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer 4 minutes ago

NEW YORK - Republican John McCain said Wednesday he is directing his staff to work with Democrat Barack Obama's campaign and the presidential debate commission to delay Friday's debate because of the economic crisis.

In a statement, McCain said he will stop campaigning after addressing former President Clinton's Global Initiative session on Thursday and return to Washington to focus on the nation's financial problems.

McCain said he wants President Bush to convene a leadership meeting in Washington that would include him and Obama.

"It has become clear that no consensus has developed to support the administration's proposal," McCain said. "I do not believe that the plan on the table will pass as it currently stands, and we are running out of time."

McCain said if Congress does not pass legislation to address the crisis, credit will dry up, people will no longer be able to buy homes, life savings will be at stake and businesses will not have enough money

"If we do not act, ever corner of our country will be impacted," McCain said. "We cannot allow this to happen."

McCain said he has spoken to Obama about his plans and asked the Democratic presidential nominee to join him.

The Obama campaign said Obama had called McCain around 8:30 a.m. Wednesday to propose that they issue a joint statement in support of a package to help fix the economy as soon as possible. McCain called back six hours later and agreed to the idea of the statement, the Obama campaign said. McCain's statement was issued to the media a few minutes later.

"We must meet as Americans, not as Democrats or Republicans, and we must meet until this crisis is resolved," McCain said. "I am confident that before the markets open on Monday we can achieve consensus on legislation that will stabilize our financial markets, protect taxpayers and homeowners, and earn the confidence of the American people. All we must do to achieve this is temporarily set politics aside, and I am committed to doing so."
Last edited by David R. Modny on Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Matt
Posts: 539
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:24 pm
What color are leaves?: Green
Spam?: No
Location: People's Republic of Maryland

Postby Matt » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:18 pm

I agree David, this is an obvious ploy on McCain's part.
-Matt

David R. Modny
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:58 am
Location: Parma, OH

Postby David R. Modny » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:37 pm

Apparently, Obama's saying: "The debate goes on as scheduled."

Hopefully, this latest bit of McCain "maverick" theatrics will blow up in his face. After all, the only thing that's changed in the last 24 hours is McCain's sinking numbers.

I'd reckon the "politics before country" press release from the McCain camp will soon appear.

David R. Modny
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:58 am
Location: Parma, OH

Postby David R. Modny » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:23 pm

Oh my...this is an absolutely brilliant reply zinger from Obama IMHO:

"It's my belief that this is exactly the time when the American people need to hear from the person who, in approximately 40 days, will be responsible for dealing with this mess," Obama said at a news conference in Clearwater, Fla. "It's going to be part of the president's job to deal with more than one thing at once."

Bennett Cerf
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:54 pm

Postby Bennett Cerf » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:59 pm

Why do I still see the "donate now" link at johnmccain.com? I thought he had suspended his campaign.

Bennett Cerf
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:54 pm

Postby Bennett Cerf » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:25 pm

"What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!" - David Letterman

David R. Modny
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:58 am
Location: Parma, OH

Postby David R. Modny » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:18 am

Not to change the subject, but...

New Hampshire:

What's the deal with McCain actually leading in a couple of (but still not all) polls in that state and effectively wiping out Obama's massive lead there over the past few months? I know that McCain did well in the NH primary (coupled with his campaign launch there), but is there any other logical explanation for this? I'm aware of New Hampshire's unique demographic (i.e. high income combined with low poverty in places), as well as their lack of a sales tax, but the erosion seems much more complex to me. Considering all the blows that McCain's taken over the past few weeks, and his overall, much deserved numerical dip, what other Kool-Aid might they be drinking to cause this aberration?

Reason being: We Dems have to absolutely keep this state blue. I've worked up several electoral scenarios, and it gets mighty scary without New Hampshire. Like...269 scary.

Colorado and New Hampshire are must-haves. Otherwise, flipping Virginia or Nevada becomes imperative.

My home state is still an enigma to me. That's the kind word.

Thoughts?

Bennett Cerf
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:54 pm

Postby Bennett Cerf » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:54 am

Well, I find 269 a lot less scary than 268.

But yeah, New Hampshire's a bit of a mystery. The polls were way off in the primary. It's the only state Gore lost but Kerry won.

McCain must have spent a lot of time in New Hampshire to win the primaries in both 2000 and 2008.

David R. Modny
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:58 am
Location: Parma, OH

Postby David R. Modny » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:29 pm

269 is definitely 1000 times more comfy than 268 these days...lol. I just don't want **any** crazy, unknown variables in the next Congress affecting the outcome (particularly the VP decision), coupled with some sort of popular vote/electoral vote flip-flop that could cause Congressional defection, in the event of a tiebreaker (e.g. Lieberman). Highly unlikely...but still a remote possibility!

(Then again, snatching an election *back* as a result of government intervention might cause me to chuckle just a wee bit...lol)

David R. Modny
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:58 am
Location: Parma, OH

Postby David R. Modny » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:56 pm

This freaking stunt has got to be called out by everyone within shouting distance. What does he need to do...have his hand on the pen? I can see the Republican caucuses *purposely* stalling this thing until the weekend to try and make him "look" like the Lone Ranger (with him probably in photo-op range). This is beyond ridiculous.

(bold type mine)


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/candidates_f ... l_meltdown

McCain campaign won't commit to debate on Friday

By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer 9 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - John McCain's campaign expressed cautious optimism Thursday as congressional Republicans and Democrats agreed in principle on a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry hours before the two presidential candidates were to meet with President Bush on the crisis.

Even so, the action didn't appear to be strong enough to convince McCain to attend Friday's scheduled presidential debate. His campaign has said he wouldn't participate unless there was consensus between Congress and the administration, and a spokesman said the afternoon developments had not changed his plans.

"There's no deal until there's a deal. We're optimistic but we want to get this thing done," McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said.

Obama still wants the face-off to go on, and is slated to travel to the debate site in Mississippi on Friday.

The debate over the debate is the latest campaign twist as McCain and Obama try to navigate the uncharted politics of the financial meltdown and show leadership at a time of national angst.

"With so much on the line, for America and the world, the debate that matters most right now is taking place in the United States Capitol — and I intend to join it," McCain said after addressing former President Clinton's Global Initiative in New York on Thursday before heading to Washington.

Obama argued the debate should proceed because a president needs to be able to handle more than one issue at a time.

"Our election is in 40 days. Our economy is in crisis, and our nation is fighting two wars abroad. The American people deserve to hear directly from myself and Sen. McCain about how we intend to lead our country. The times are too serious to put our campaign on hold, or to ignore the full range of issues that the next president will face."

In Oxford, Miss., debate organizers continued to prepare.

At a news conference, Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, a Republican, said he expected the presidential debate to go ahead, though he said he had no inside information. "This is going to be a great debate tomorrow night. We're excited about it," Barbour said.

Television networks, too, were moving forward. "We're proceeding as if it's on and will until someone tells us that it's not," ABC spokeswoman Cathie Levine said.

The two candidates spoke to the Clinton Global Initiative — McCain in person, Obama via satellite — before the meeting in Washington with Bush and House and Senate leaders from both parties. One of them is certain to inherit the economic mess, including the aftermath of the unprecedented plan to rescue the financial sector.

Presidential politics was running smack into the delicate negotiations over how to stop further weakening the sagging economy without putting an enormous new burden on taxpayers or rewarding corporations or their executives who share the blame for the woes.

On Capitol Hill, Democratic and Republican negotiators emerged from a closed-door meeting to report an agreement in principle. They said they would present it to the Bush administration in hopes of a vote within days.

Rogers said McCain didn't participate in that meeting, but was in talks with Republican leaders afterward. Conservative Republicans were among the holdouts, and there were indications they were waiting for McCain to make a move before they did.

As Thursday began, McCain said he didn't believe the administration's plan had the votes to pass without changes. "We are running out of time," McCain said. However, he said he still was confident a bipartisan compromise could be reached before markets open on Monday, one that would stabilize the markets, protect taxpayers and homeowners and "earn the confidence of the American people."

He again portrayed his announced halt to campaign events, fundraising and advertising as an example of putting the country ahead of politics. But in doing so he also hoped to get political credit for a decisive step on a national crisis as polls show him trailing Obama on the economy and slipping in the presidential race.

Despite McCain's stated campaigning hiatus, his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, paid a highly visible visit to memorials in lower Manhattan to those killed in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Democrats derided McCain's claim to have halted his campaign as a political stunt, though Obama himself didn't go that far.

For his part, Obama urged a swift resolution that would get the legislation passed, saying "action must be taken to restore confidence in our economy ... Now is a time to come together — Democrats and Republicans — in a spirit of cooperation on behalf of the American people."

Obama also rolled out a new 60-second TV ad to run in "key targeted states" in which he cited economic policies endorsed by Bush and McCain as essentially to blame for the troubles.

"For eight years we've been told that the way to a stronger economy was to give huge tax breaks to corporations and the wealthiest. Cut oversight on Wall Street. And somehow all Americans would benefit," Obama says in the ad. "Well now we know the truth. Instead of prosperity tricking down, the pain has trickled up. We need to change direction. Now."

User avatar
Jeff T.
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:28 am
Location: Blueberry Hill

Postby Jeff T. » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:27 pm

I've read these same articles today also and feel the same way. Obama need not play into their hand.

This is a great quote from above:
"For eight years we've been told that the way to a stronger economy was to give huge tax breaks to corporations and the wealthiest. Cut oversight on Wall Street. And somehow all Americans would benefit," Obama says in the ad. "Well now we know the truth. Instead of prosperity tricking down, the pain has trickled up. We need to change direction. Now."

I was about to head over here and start my own thread but my as well post it here if if it's ok. I am beginning to think that a bailout plan might be best dealt with after the election. Because let's face it, many of us are basically stone broke and living on the edge anyway. Been like that for several years right. I don't see how a few banks going bust is going to hurt the average guy any worse then he is already hurting. Lost job, lost house, what's another few points down on Wall Street.

Now the AIG loan is one thing, they must pay it back with interest. So they are to sell off their assets beginning with the most profitable ones so that when they are done paying off the 80 billion dollar loan (with interest) they will be a ratty old company with nothing worth selling. They will simply close up. That protects current and future ins. claims which need to be covered.

But this big bailout where the government buys all the bad assets with our money, so that those guys with golden exit packages, and the rich do not take too big of a hit is sickening.

I say slow down a bit, let Bush finish his term, and do not let him drag us into something (another thing) he can't finish. We'll deal with the economy, banking, Wall Street after the election. You never want to rush into a big purchase right? I say let's go slow, let McCain grind his campaign into the ground, and let's start fresh in Jan. without a trillion dollar debt for the tax payers to deal with.

White House Summit Ends on Sour NoteBy DAVID ROGERS, Politico.com
posted: 54 MINUTES AGO - A high-profile White House meeting on Treasury's $700 billion Wall Street rescue plan ended Thursday on a sour, contentious note, with no joint endorsement by the two presidential candidates, Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama.
Democrats complained of being "blindsided" by a new conservative alternative to the plan first put forward by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. And the outcome casts doubt on the ability of Congress to move quickly on the matter, even after leaders of House and Senate banking committees reached a bipartisan agreement Thursday on the framework for legislation authorizing the massive government intervention.
Last edited by Jeff T. on Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Xenu
Sellout
Posts: 2209
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:15 pm

Postby Xenu » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:34 pm

WaMu is gone. Jesus Christ.
-------------
"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911

User avatar
Beatlesfan03
Posts: 582
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:45 pm
Location: Another red state :(

Postby Beatlesfan03 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:40 pm

Xenu wrote:WaMu is gone. Jesus Christ.


Strange that while I worked at WaMu, all the rumors of a takeover always pointed to JP Morgan Chase (whom I worked for prior to WaMu). Looks the rumor is now truth.

All of my friends there have been in panic mode since early this year. So I doubt that this will come as a shock.
Craig

User avatar
Jeff T.
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:28 am
Location: Blueberry Hill

Postby Jeff T. » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:02 am

Xenu wrote:WaMu is gone. Jesus Christ.


I know, and that is my current bank for checking account. And while I don't mean to kick a dog when they are down, they have a rep for doing dirty lying tricks concerning fees, over draft fees, and "over the limit" on credit card fees.

theses are the consumer affairs complaints over their dirty tricks:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/ ... l_bank.htm

So I am sort of glad that perhaps Chase might be better for me in the long run. But I think I am going over to Wells Fargo with my checking as I like the ATM locations better anyhow.

David R. Modny
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:58 am
Location: Parma, OH

Postby David R. Modny » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:12 am

This all comes down to the fact the McCain has no intention of attending the debate tomorrow (or perhaps wants to rather wipe out the VP debate altogether if he can bait Obama). McCain's already got his minions out there working the circuit as well as the ad running of "Obama putting politics before country." It's a total farce.

It was *only* at the 11th hour that the Pubs had to desperately stop this nearly complete thing from going through knowing that they (and McCain) wouldn't reap the upper hand in political equity from it! More importantly, McCain would have to face the music in Mississippi without accomplishing his deceitful trick. Out comes the sudden about-face in the bottom of the 9th!

Why did they "storm out" then? Because they don't want it locked in before debate time tomorrow! And, obviously the Dems can't give away the store in order to force their hand. Thus, McCain will stay in Washington and play the "economy first," "maverick" card, when in truth, he's virtually inconsequential. My guess is that it will be the weekend when the Pubs finally, miraculously, consent to let it rip. By then it won't matter. If, they can still publicly "shame" Obama in the process.

You can't win when your playing against low-life thugs who are only interested in changing the rules with diversion upon diversion. This isn't good political strategy. It's holding the American public hostage with fear, smoke and mirrors for political gain. Confuse. Create conflict. Conquer.

"I'm for deregulation."
"I'm for regulation."
"The crisis is imperative."
"But, not imperative enough to prevent politicising it."

And, now these GOP corporate shill low-lifes (i.e. McCain hiding behind his henchmen) are criss-crossing, trying to hide behind the "we want to make sure that real Americans aren't hurt by this bailout" line. While, all the while, wanting to suspend the capital gains tax to encourage troubled *big businesses* with mortgage debt to sell their own portfolios and, thus, provide tax incentives for the other companies that buy them (something that TS Paulson had testified would not work and which they allegedly already agreed to).

Short of some sort of "out" tomorrow -- something where McCain can emerge in Mississippi with compromise or "leadership" brownie points attributed to him (as well as a photo-op) -- I reckon we won't see him. Instead, his "suspended" campaign will amp up and continue to try and paint Obama as the "politics first" guy. Sadly, the Dems might have to bend or risk looking like he has egg on his face, say, if Obama is left standing at the debate altar by himself (while McCain is painted as "working" the phones and the GOP cogs "miraculously" relent shortly afterward (i.e. before Monday)). Truth is, this wretched McCain campaign is beyond shameful. Heaven help us if America falls for it.

Note to McCain: Hop on your Learjet and spend a few hours away from Washington in Mississippi. The US economic system won't crumble in your absence.
Last edited by David R. Modny on Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.