Palin? Really?

Expect plenty of disagreement. Just keep it civil.
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Postby Bennett Cerf » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:03 pm

David R. Modny wrote:Oh...and by the way Jeff, please ask your Obama-leaning clients if they would temporarily mind relocating from California to -- and registering in -- either Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Colorado or Michigan? Rumor has it that they're needed there immediately...lol!


Speaking of which, do you have any sense of Obama's chances in Ohio? He has a very slight edge in the polls, and the solid victories for Ted Strickland and Sherrod Brown in 2006 seem encouraging.

The Kerry states plus Ohio are all Obama needs to win, and the Kerry states are looking pretty good.

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Postby Jeff T. » Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:00 pm

Matt wrote:
Jeff T. wrote:It's a big deal this time for many who normally snooze through elections. I'm optimistic this time. And believe that after the election we will see an economic improvement however small, fairly quickly after the win - out of pure joy to close a very dark chapter in Amercian politics.


You know, this is the first time I have considered not voting. I'm not impressed with either one of the candidates.


Really....there isn't one candidate that seems to bring people together rather than be divisive, who might be able to make history, and certainly bring a change into this country?

Health care, jobs, housing, gas prices, food costs, etc. nothing worth walking over and checking a few boxes?

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Postby David R. Modny » Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:14 pm

Bennett Cerf wrote:
Speaking of which, do you have any sense of Obama's chances in Ohio? He has a very slight edge in the polls, and the solid victories for Ted Strickland and Sherrod Brown in 2006 seem encouraging.

The Kerry states plus Ohio are all Obama needs to win, and the Kerry states are looking pretty good.



Ohio is always very tricky. And, my honest (i.e. fearful) sense is that it could go either way. I do agree with most of the pundits though in that, if it ends up being a close race, Ohio will indeed be the deciding state - just at it was in '04. Looking at the electoral map as of today, I'd say it's already showing Ohio to be the deal-breaker. 7th largest state population in the country...all those precious electoral votes. Such a varied voting demographic.

It's tricky in that -- in light of the fractured economy here, and the fact that Cuyahoga County (i.e. Cleveland and surrounding areas) is fairly labor friendly and somewhat socially progressive -- the rest of the state has large pockets of extreme social conservatism. And, whereas, you might get a progressive/labor/environmentalist bump in the other major cities (e.g. Dayton, Cincy, Toledo, Youngstown) and a few smaller communities, it all comes down to whether or not the, ahem, more narrow-minded sector will trump as it did in '04. Namely, it was the conservative, western farm vote that Rove managed to stir up in large numbers in Ohio in that election - a sector that was, ironically, hit some of the hardest due to Republican administration economic policies. Up is down. Down is up.

In this regard, race is going to be the silent issue at hand. As noted before, it appears that Rove is purposely using his same extremist tactics to rally up his (already) intolerant base. Strickland and Brown were "white guys"...Obama's not (at least the racist-required 100%). It's almost as if Rove's already begun zeroing in on states like Ohio, Virginia, Florida, etc. Obviously, our trump card in Ohio *is* the minority and youth vote. One that is hopefully as energized as it's ever going to be. Considering that *some* of the elements/people who were involved in the Ohio voting chicanery of '04 have been brought down (unfortunately, not all), one would also hope that things will be a little better in that regard.

So, I'm cautiously optimistic, but still worried as well. Will the disgruntled and disenfranchised be enough to trump the intolerant?

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Postby Matt » Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:03 pm

Jeff T. wrote:Really....there isn't one candidate that seems to bring people together rather than be divisive, who might be able to make history, and certainly bring a change into this country?


It seems to me that it is just the same old tired rhetoric from both sides. Maybe it is just getting old to me in general.
-Matt

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Jeff T.
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Postby Jeff T. » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:37 am

Matt wrote:
Jeff T. wrote:Really....there isn't one candidate that seems to bring people together rather than be divisive, who might be able to make history, and certainly bring a change into this country?


It seems to me that it is just the same old tired rhetoric from both sides. Maybe it is just getting old to me in general.


Well the choice is stay the course with what we have been through the last 8 years, or take a chance, any chance on something new.

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Postby Jeff T. » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:40 am

You might have read this article already David in the NY Times yesterday, but I copied a few lines just in case. I get the free edition in email form every day. It comes in about 1:45am each day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/us/po ... &th&emc=th

Several Republican delegates said they too were shocked by the selection of Ms. Palin and, while they wished her well, were deeply concerned that she did not have the experience in foreign policy or national security to be commander in chief.

“We’ve been told for the last few months that experience is what matters most in the next White House,” said John Scates, a delegate from St. Louis. “But McCain is picking someone whose experience is little to nothing or, at best, unknown.”

In the days ahead, Mr. Obama’s advisers said they would not just seek to define Ms. Palin as extremely conservative on issues like abortion and raise questions about her credentials as part of a larger effort to challenge Mr. McCain’s judgment. They will also argue that Mr. McCain’s decision would prove to be a mistake in terms of appealing to women and that it would hurt him in important battlegrounds like the Philadelphia suburbs.

“In terms of the classic suburbs, it’s a bomb,” said Marcel L. Groen, the chairman of the Democratic Party of Montgomery County, outside Philadelphia. “So far as suburban woman go, this will not help McCain at all: they’re pro-choice and anti-gun.”

It is complicated terrain, aides to Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain acknowledged. Any perception that Mr. Obama or his supporters were trying to tear down Ms. Palin could renew anger among supporters of Mrs. Clinton.

“I can’t imagine the Obama team will spend their time on Palin; they’ll spend their time with their negative ads attacking McCain and Bush,” said Mandy Grunwald, Mrs. Clinton’s chief advertising strategist. “You always have to be careful not to rally people to her side by attacking too much.”

Republicans said Ms. Palin would provide an outlet for women angered at what they said was the poor treatment of Mrs. Clinton by the Obama campaign, the Democratic Party leadership and the news media. Nicolle Wallace, a senior adviser to Mr. McCain, said: “I think the public pretty much accepts the fact that they played pretty dirty and that sexism played a role in the primary.”

Mr. Obama’s campaign has moved on a variety of fronts to increase his appeal to women. Leading women in battleground states are being mobilized, and a disproportionate number of female surrogates are being sent to argue for him on television. They are being asked to focus on abortion rights and pay equity, aides said, and to steer clear of criticizing Ms. Palin as having limited experience in elected politics and government.

And Mrs. Clinton is likely to play an even more active role on behalf of Mr. Obama in the fall campaign, her aides said, because of Ms. Palin. She is expected to participate in television appearances, fund-raisers and conference calls with reporters to rebut efforts by the McCain campaign to court her supporters.

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Postby Rspaight » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:17 pm

While researching Palin's opposition to "explicit" sex ed (which seems to have worked out well for her), I found this:

http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/20 ... idate.html

11. Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.


I had no idea the "founding fathers" were still alive in 1954.
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Postby Xenu » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:44 pm

Nor that the founding fathers ever had anything to do with the pledge in any of its incarnations.
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Postby Rspaight » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:35 pm

Click over to the article for more documentation on each item. This is making Dan Quayle look good.

The Palin Meltdown in Slo-Mo
By Greg Sargent - September 1, 2008, 6:20PM

On the same day that the Republicans were forced to dramatically cut back their convention activities, the Palin Meltdown unfolded with extraordinary speed. It's worth pondering the totality of what happened today, in a mere half day...

* The news that Palin once backed the Bridge to Nowhere went national.

* It emerged that Palin has links to the bizarro Alaska Independence Party, which harbors the goal of seceding from the union that McCain and Palin seek to lead.

* The news broke that as governor, Palin relied on an earmark system she now opposes. Taken along with the Bridge to Nowhere stuff, this threatens to undercut her reformist image, something that was key to her selection as McCain's Veep candidate.

* The news broke that Palin's 17-year-old daughter became pregnant out of wedlock at a time when the conservative base had finally started rallying behind McCain's candidacy.

* Barely moments after McCain advisers put out word that McCain had known of Bristol Palin's pregnancy, the Anchorage Daily News revealed that Palin's own spokesperson hadn't known about it only two days ago.

* A senior McCain adviser at the Republican convention was forced into the rather embarrassing position of arguing that McCain had known about the pregnancy "last week" -- without saying what day last week he knew about it.

* It came out that Republican lawyers are up in Alaska vetting Palin -- now, more than 72 hours after it was announced that she'd been picked.

* Palin lawyered up in relation to the trooper-gate probe in Alaska -- a move that ensures far more serious attention to the story from the major news orgs.

What else will come out today? After all, there are still six hours left until September 2nd...
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Jeff T.
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Postby Jeff T. » Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:24 pm

Rspaight wrote:Click over to the article for more documentation on each item. This is making Dan Quayle look good.

The Palin Meltdown in Slo-Mo
By Greg Sargent - September 1, 2008, 6:20PM

On the same day that the Republicans were forced to dramatically cut back their convention activities, the Palin Meltdown unfolded with extraordinary speed. It's worth pondering the totality of what happened today, in a mere half day...

* The news broke that Palin's 17-year-old daughter became pregnant out of wedlock at a time when the conservative base had finally started rallying behind McCain's candidacy.

* Barely moments after McCain advisers put out word that McCain had known of Bristol Palin's pregnancy, the Anchorage Daily News revealed that Palin's own spokesperson hadn't known about it only two days ago.

What else will come out today? After all, there are still six hours left until September 2nd...


I am interested in knowing a bit about who is the father to be? A high school dropout working at Wendy's, or what?

The timing could not be worse for all of them. The convention being altered by an act of god (Gustav) kind of says to me things are not going to go smoothly for the Republicans. It's like when you go to test drive a used car and the key breaks off in the door the first time you go to try it out. Then you finally get in and the seat is stuck in an odd position. You know then that it just might not be meant to be.

They are going against the laws of good will and nature I believe, that's not good.
Last edited by Jeff T. on Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby David R. Modny » Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:59 pm

And while James Dobson and his "family values" posse are obviously going to be shifting the story and praising her for keeping the baby, let's keep reminding all the PUMA voters how nice is it is that Bristol currently lives in a country where she still has a *choice*. I actually kinda feel sorry for this young lady, and that she has to be part of the Republican three-ring circus. Can you imagine the "morality failure" rhetoric these same blowhards would be squawking if she were, say, Biden's granddaughter?

Furthermore, they're now reporting that even McCain's at odds with the party platform loons over the whole "rape and incest" rider - with the wingnuts standing firm in their insistence. Thank goodness this young lady wasn't brutally raped, or her fate would've already been decided for her (probably by a bunch of silver-haired guys).

Obama's playing smart to not even get sucked into any of this personal drama. The opposing ticket looks like it's going to implode all by itself under the weight of its party's own extremist dogma and hypocrisy.

The price of McCain's pandering. It's 1992 all over again.



(PS - And let us not also forget that Palin supports **abstinence** over the teaching of sex education in schools, while McCain has repeatedly voted down government funding and/or insurance prescription reimbursement of contraception. So what's new?...they're the face of the modern Republican Party!)


Proselytize and punish...but can't try and prevent or help protect.
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Postby Jeff T. » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:22 pm

David R. Modny wrote:Furthermore, they're now reporting that even McCain's at odds with the party platform loons over the whole "rape and incest" rider - with the wingnuts standing firm in their insistence. Thank goodness this young lady wasn't brutally raped, or her fate would've already been decided for her (probably by a bunch of silver-haired guys).


And in that same NYTs issue there is that article concerning McCain's contempt at being on the ticket finally, but having to follow up Bush's messy and highly unpopular tenture. He has been given a lose-lose situation. He needs some of the Bush backers obviously, but can't get too associated with a failed administration. He can't point fingers where he really needs to in order to show that he is different. That's politics folks!
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A relationship fraught with bitter resentment, grudging respect and mutual dependence takes center stage this week as the Republican Party gathers in St. Paul to pass the mantle of leadership. As at that May photo opportunity in Phoenix, which followed a fund-raiser, Bush will be ushered out of the spotlight as quickly as possible — if not in 14 seconds, then not all that much longer. After an opening-night speech tomorrow, he will leave town with none of the celebratory rock-star attention Bill Clinton commanded at Al Gore’s convention and retreat to Camp David before McCain even arrives at the Xcel Energy Center for his coronation.

No matter how careful the orchestration, though, a rivalry seared in the brutal lowlands of South Carolina circles around to this moment. Eight years after their epic Republican primary battle of 2000, the first-place finisher desperately needs the second-place finisher to win in order to validate his own legacy. And the runner-up now finds himself saddled with the baggage of a man he never much liked to begin with, forced to live with a record he personally considers deeply lacking and portrayed as if he were a clone of his longtime adversary. As John Weaver, McCain’s former chief strategist told me, “I’m sure McCain is thinking, Is Bush going to beat me twice?”

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Postby Bennett Cerf » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:58 pm

McCain's problem with choosing a running mate was that he wanted to choose a woman, and apparently after 25 years as a Washington power player he didn't know a single woman he considered qualified.

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Postby David R. Modny » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:00 pm

Well, considering McCain's voting record over the past few years himself, as well as his obvious folding and pandering, the "maverick" doesn't have an ounce of my sympathy. Like I said...the face of the Republican Party.

EDIT: This remark was in response to Jeff's post/article. :)

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Postby lukpac » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:07 pm

Mildly amusing...

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09012008/ne ... 127025.htm

On his MySpace page, Johnston boasts, "I'm a f - - -in' redneck" who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes.

"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."

"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] ass," he added.

He also claims to be "in a relationship," but states, "I don't want kids."
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