Screw Hillary Clinton

Expect plenty of disagreement. Just keep it civil.
LesPaul666
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 6:11 pm

Postby LesPaul666 » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:11 pm

"Because she eagerly enlists the help of the Karl Rove right-wing attack machine to weaken the legitimate nominee?"

Could you tell me if this is alleged, or fact, and the source of the information on this?

Thanks
:)

User avatar
Rspaight
Posts: 4384
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:48 am
Location: The Reality-Based Community
Contact:

Postby Rspaight » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:37 pm

The fact that Clinton's been pushing Rove's electoral-map analysis showing her as the stronger candidate is well-established. Here she is talking about it:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Clinton_K ... _0519.html

Here she is adopting Rove talking points in attacking Obama's support from MoveOn:

http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/18/hilla ... ks-moveon/

She also chose Richard Mellon Scaife's newspaper as the venue to launch her Wright-based attacks on Obama (thus joining in with guys like Bozell and Buchanan):

http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000993.htm

She's not been exactly shy about joining up with anyone she thinks might help tear down Obama. I guess that means she's a uniter, not a divider.
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4589
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby lukpac » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:20 pm

Obviously a breakdown electorally is more important, and things can change a lot, but FYI:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... er-mccain/

The new USA Today/Gallup survey shows the Illinois senator with a 5 point advantage over McCain among likely voters, 49 percent to 44 percent. That margin is just outside the poll's 4 point margin of error, meaning Obama appears to hold a slight advantage over the Arizona senator with five months remaining until voters weigh in at the polls.

The survey shows Hillary Clinton also leads McCain, though with a margin that is just with the poll's sampling error. According to the survey, the New York senator bests McCain by 4 points, 48 percent to 44 percent.

A similar poll conducted by USA Today/Gallup last month showed John McCain beating both candidates — a potential sign the ongoing Democratic presidential race has not hurt the party's chances in November.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

User avatar
Rspaight
Posts: 4384
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:48 am
Location: The Reality-Based Community
Contact:

Postby Rspaight » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:35 pm

The McCain swift-boating of Obama officially commences tonight. We'll see if he responds more effectively than Kerry and/or Gore did.

If he can withstand several weeks of that and still keep an edge, I will enjoy cautious optimism.
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

User avatar
Rspaight
Posts: 4384
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:48 am
Location: The Reality-Based Community
Contact:

Postby Rspaight » Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:54 am

Well, here we are -- Obama's clinched the nomination and Clinton is refusing to concede. She even gave a speech last night repeating her bullshit claim to "more popular votes." (Ignoring caucuses and counting the Soviet-style Michigan primary.)

Every single time she's given an opportunity to display class and leadership, she instead trots out petulance and narcissism.

In happier news, McCain's opening salvo was a resounding flop. I wonder how much mileage he's actually going to get with his "young man" shtick. All it'll take is one "boy" to slip out and it'll be all over.
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

LesPaul666
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 6:11 pm

Postby LesPaul666 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:23 pm

Wow...There's some serious animosity towards Mrs. Clinton. That's the type of thing that will assure another 2 terms of a Republican president. That's what everyone wants, that's what they're going to get.

In just one day after the primary, you have droves of people who were supporting Hillary, now support John McCain. Not to be a fortune teller, in my opinion, Mr. Obama will possibly have half a chance, if he chooses her to run as His Vice President. Like I said earlier, if in November the race is close, I'm voting for Obama. If not, They can stick this election up their cans, sideways.

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4589
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby lukpac » Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:07 pm

LesPaul666 wrote:Wow...There's some serious animosity towards Mrs. Clinton. That's the type of thing that will assure another 2 terms of a Republican president. That's what everyone wants, that's what they're going to get.

In just one day after the primary, you have droves of people who were supporting Hillary, now support John McCain.


<scratches head>

Wouldn't Hillary supporters going in droves to McCain assure another 2 terms of a Republican president, rather than animosity towards her?

I fail to understand what leg Hillary has to stand on at this point. Obama has over 100 more pledged delegates than Hillary, more than 100 superdelegates than Hillary, and is actually polling better than Hillary against McSame. Why on earth should Hillary be the nominee?
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

User avatar
Rspaight
Posts: 4384
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:48 am
Location: The Reality-Based Community
Contact:

Postby Rspaight » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:38 pm

Apparently you can count all her most prominent supporters among those who want to hand the country over to McCain, because when she called her biggest backers on the Hill today to make her case for dragging this thing out (including longtime sponsor and backer Charles Rangel), they all told her to bow the hell out no later than the end of the week and support the damn nominee. Which apparently she's doing Friday or Saturday.

Which by my count is about a month later than it should have been, and three or four days later that it really needed to be. Last night, when she should have bowed out gracefully, supported the nominee, thanked her followers, and gave her agenda one last push, she instead threw red meat to her deluded followers, recited nonsense statistics, and acted like she had some reason to still be hanging around the other candidates.
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

Bennett Cerf
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:54 pm

Postby Bennett Cerf » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:52 pm

LesPaul666 wrote:In just one day after the primary, you have droves of people who were supporting Hillary, now support John McCain.


Do you have evidence of these droves?

LesPaul666
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 6:11 pm

Postby LesPaul666 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:53 am

Evidence? In NJ, where I live, all I hear is people saying what I stated in my last post. Maybe in other parts of the country, it may be different. The New York City Area where I live, is primarily Clinton Country.

I'm not necessarily saying that she should be the nominee. What I am saying is that all this hateful animosity towards her from Obama supporters, is what is going to make her voters (what, almost half of the country, mostly from key states that will count *more* in the general election?) either not vote, or give theirs to McCain. I've haven't seen two candidates from the same party which have their supporters seemingly want to draw blood from one another.

I'm not talking about delegates, numbers, Popular vote. Both sides of the same Democratic party hate each other more than either feels about the Republican Party, at least it seems that way. This country is not going to change as quickly as most of the dreamers think it is. It's human nature.
Just being realistic.


Let's hear how Hillary affected people here on a *personal level* to talk so badly about her?

My only gripe with Obama is that He's a kindergartener that wants to graduate from high-school, just a little bit too early.

User avatar
Rspaight
Posts: 4384
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:48 am
Location: The Reality-Based Community
Contact:

Postby Rspaight » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:05 am

If you want to talk about hateful animosity, go check out the pro-Hillary sites and get a load of the vitriol being spewed at Obama, his supporters, the media, the Democratic party and anyone else that's part of the grand conspiracy to deny Clinton her entitlement to the nomination. No side has a monopoly on ill will here. The difference is that my ill will toward Clinton is based on her actions, while the ill will of the Clinton folks is based on not getting what they wanted for Christmas.

There's nothing "personal" about it. I and many others believe that Clinton materially lessened Obama's chances in the fall by pursuing a divisive, deceitful, ego-driven primary campaign well past the point when it was obvious she couldn't win.

Ask yourself this: would all the Hillary fans out there who are so mad she didn't win that they're going to vote for McCain be this bent out of shape if they hadn't been lied to about her ability to win the nomination for the last several weeks, as recently as Tuesday night *after* Obama had clinched? If Clinton had said a month ago, "You know, the math just isn't there for me. We need to rally behind Obama and look toward the fall," do you think that her followers would be stamping their feet and whining to this extent?

Then ask yourself what Obama could have done differently to avert the current situation. I can't think of a damn thing, unless you think he should have abandoned a race he legitimately won and given way to Clinton's apparent birthright to the nomination. (In which case, why bother with a primary at all?)

The blame for the current split in the party lays squarely at the feet of Hillary Clinton. If pointing out that fact annoys her followers so much that they vote for McCain, they need to grow up.
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

Bennett Cerf
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:54 pm

Postby Bennett Cerf » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:41 am

LesPaul666 wrote:It's crazy, I hear people around me, friends and acquaintances, saying how much they "hate" Bill and Hillary Clinton.


LesPaul666 wrote:In NJ, where I live, all I hear is people saying what I stated in my last post.


Are these the same people?

Hillary supporters who plan to vote for McCain should be recognized as the nutjobs that they are.

As Hillary herself says:

"On Saturday, I will extend my congratulations to Senator Obama and my support for his candidacy. This has been a long and hard-fought campaign, but as I have always said, my differences with Senator Obama are small compared to the differences we have with Senator McCain and the Republicans. ...

I will be speaking on Saturday about how together we can rally the party behind Senator Obama. The stakes are too high and the task before us too important to do otherwise."

David R. Modny
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:58 am
Location: Parma, OH

Postby David R. Modny » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:56 pm

Once the dust settles, I'd like to believe that cooler heads will indeed prevail. 4-5 months is an eternity in a general election campaign. I'm hoping that as the reality of McCain's message sets in, the bulk of the diehard Hillary-ites will realize that he's the embodiment of much of what they and their preferred candidate are against - particularly his social message. Hopefully in time, with the primaries in the past, they'll realize that an Obama presidency is far more in line with their hopes and dreams than a McCain tenure would EVER be.

Then again, if pride and foolish stubborness trump ideology...we Dems are in big trouble. That demographic "staying home" isn't an option, and they need to be aware of the consequences of their actions if they do. That is, a country led by a pandering, social "conservative" whose myopic fiscal and international policies will probably be a simple extension of the past 8 years. We'll need every single vote for a chance to take back the White House.

Bennett Cerf
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:54 pm

Postby Bennett Cerf » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:51 pm

Credit where credit is due: Sen. Clinton gave a fine speech today.

User avatar
Rspaight
Posts: 4384
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:48 am
Location: The Reality-Based Community
Contact:

Postby Rspaight » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:51 am

True. Nice balance of dignity and grace. I hope she's successful in energizing her supporters for November. Considering how close in policy she and Obama are, if the personality rift can be healed, there's no real barrier to a strong Dem showing.
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney