Stem-cell research = murder

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Bennett Cerf
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Stem-cell research = murder

Postby Bennett Cerf » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:58 am

I was certainly aware that Bush opposed expansion of federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research. I was not aware that he believes stem-cell research constitutes murder.

This leads to a seemingly obvious question: Does he wish to make stem-cell research a felony punishable by execution?


Veto Expected Today on Stem Cell Bill

By MARY DALRYMPLE

President Bush readied the first veto of his presidency to stop legislation to ease limits on federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research. The veto is expected as soon as the measure reaches his desk. White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said that was expected to happen about midday Wednesday, and that Bush would veto the measure as promised.

While both the GOP-run House and Senate defied Bush in passing the measure to expand federally funded embryonic stem research, supporters do not appear to have the two-thirds vote margin needed to override such a veto.

[snip]

"The president believes strongly that for the purpose of research, it's inappropriate for the federal government to finance something that many people consider murder. He's one of them," spokesman Tony Snow said.

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Rspaight
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Postby Rspaight » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:04 am

If using stem cells from embryos that were slated to be thrown in the dumpster anyway is "murder," then what does that make throwing the embyros away *without* doing anything useful with them?

Sounds to me like the better question is: Where's the legislation to outlaw fertility treatments that generate embryos that are then discarded? Because if using them for stem cells is murder, then surely the process that created the doomed lil' critters in the first place is also murder.

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Postby Matt » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:06 am

Bush's impending veto, in my opinion, is a bad move.
-Matt

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Postby krabapple » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:32 am

Matt wrote:Bush's impending veto, in my opinion, is a bad move.


For him. Which makes it a good move for us. Yet more public evidence of this buffoon's intellectual bankruptcy.
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Postby Matt » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:46 pm

krabapple wrote:For him. Which makes it a good move for us. Yet more public evidence of this buffoon's intellectual bankruptcy.


What ultimately annoys me is that fact the he Bush is willing to impede scientific research, which has the potential to help so many people, because of his personal religious beliefs.
-Matt

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Postby David R. Modny » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:16 pm

Matt wrote:What ultimately annoys me is that fact the he Bush is willing to impede scientific research, which has the potential to help so many people, because of his personal religious beliefs.



Please, don't give him so much credit as to suggest that this veto is in any way, shape or form born out of personal conviction - which if it were true would make him even more of an ineffectual leader than he already is. This is simply the big payoff to the money religious rightards who put him in office. Anyone but the most fervent of loonies knows this is a bad move on his part (e.g. witness his embryo "adoption" parade). The fact that this gets perpetuated as some sort of testament of his "faith" is almost as twisted as the logic that he tries to put forth in justifying this unjustifiable presidential action. This is strictly for show.

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Postby lukpac » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:12 pm

David R. Modny wrote:Please, don't give him so much credit as to suggest that this veto is in any way, shape or form born out of personal conviction - which if it were true would make him even more of an ineffectual leader than he already is. This is simply the big payoff to the money religious rightards who put him in office. Anyone but the most fervent of loonies knows this is a bad move on his part (e.g. witness his embryo "adoption" parade). The fact that this gets perpetuated as some sort of testament of his "faith" is almost as twisted as the logic that he tries to put forth in justifying this unjustifiable presidential action. This is strictly for show.


Like the gay marriage amendment...
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Postby lukpac » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:27 pm

Check out what I bolded. Does anyone know offhand if tax money ever comes into play when embryos are simply thrown out? I'd *think* so, but guess I don't really know.

An honest push would be to ban any embryos from being produced if they weren't going to be implanted. Saying it's ok to create embryos that will just be thrown out, but not ok to use those same embryos for scientific purposes instead of throwing them out is a joke.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/19/ ... index.html

Bush vetoes embryonic stem-cell bill

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush on Wednesday used his veto power for the first time since taking office 5 1/2 years ago, saying that a embryonic stem-cell research bill "crossed a moral boundary."

The bill, which the Senate passed Tuesday in a 63-37 vote, would have loosened the restrictions on federal funding for stem-cell research.

House Republican leaders have said they would try for an override vote on the measure, but it's unlikely to pass, lacking the two-thirds majority needed in each chamber.

"This bill would support the taking of innocent human life in the hope of finding medical benefits for others," Bush said Wednesday afternoon. "It crosses a moral boundary that our decent society needs to respect. So I vetoed it."

Attending the White House event were a group of families with children who were born from "adopted" frozen embryos that had been left unused at fertility clinics.

"These boys and girls are not spare parts," he said of the children in the audience. "They remind us of what is lost when embryos are destroyed in the name of research. They remind us that we all begin our lives as a small collection of cells."

The measure, which the House of Representatives passed in May 2005, allows couples who have had embryos frozen for fertility treatments to donate them to researchers rather than let them be destroyed.

Bush said, "If this bill were to become law, American taxpayers would, for the first time in our history, be compelled to fund the deliberate destruction of human embryos, and I'm not going to allow it."

In August 2001, Bush announced that his administration would allow federal funding only for research on about 60 stem-cell lines that existed at the time. Researchers have since found that many of those lines are contaminated and unusable for research.

Scientists say stem cells could be a renewable source of replacement cells and tissues to treat Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases, spinal cord injuries, diabetes, strokes, burns and more.

The issue has split the Republican Party, with Bush siding with the Catholic Church and social conservatives against the GOP's more moderate voices. (Watch how the issue pits Bush against some Republicans -- 1:30)

The Senate bill's principal sponsor, Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pennsylvania, who recently survived a brush with cancer, was joined by Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tennessee, a physician who argued that Bush's policy is too restrictive.

"I am pro-life, but I disagree with the president's decision to veto the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act," Frist said in a statement. "Given the potential of this research and the limitations of the existing lines eligible for federally funded research, I think additional lines should be made available."

Also in a statement, Lawrence T. Smith, chairman of the American Diabetes Association, called the veto "a devastating setback for the 20.8 million American children and adults with diabetes -- and those who love and care for them."

Opponents argue that other alternatives, such as adult stem cells, are available. Two companion bills -- one to promote alternative means of developing stem-cell lines from sources such as placental blood and another to ban the commercial production of human fetal tissue, also known as "fetal farming" -- passed the Senate in 100-0 votes.

On Tuesday evening, the House approved the "fetal farming" bill 425-0 but didn't pass the measure promoting alternative stem-cell sources when backers failed to achieve the two-thirds majority that House rules required. The vote on the alternative-sources bill was 273-154.

Bush signed the "fetal farming" legislation and urged Congress to fund alternative research.

"I'm disappointed that the House failed to authorize funding for this vital and ethical research," he said. "It makes no sense to say that you're in favor of finding cures for terrible diseases as quickly as possible and then block a bill that would authorize funding for promising and ethical stem-cell research."

A House GOP aide said that the leadership would bring the funding bill back to the floor at another time under a different set of rules that would require a simple majority to pass the measure.

CNN's Dana Bash and Deirdre Walsh contributed to this report.
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Postby Rspaight » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:57 pm

I was wondering that, too. Are those sorts of fertility treatments covered by federal health plans?

Ryan
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Postby krabapple » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:42 pm

Any stem cell research is bound to produce failed experiments -- leading to 'thrown away embryos'. Likely large amounts of them. Already has, for sure, in the few lines that are allowed.

It's an idiotic stance. We're literally talking about clumps of cells, not even 'fetuses' in the vernacular sense. There will be no 'traction' videos showing big-headed mini-mes to tug at the heartstrings of the scientifically illiterate. The Jebus-lovers will lose this one.
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Postby Chris M » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:05 am

Anyone that can't see that stem-cell research is pro life is a fucking retard.
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Postby Xenu » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:03 am

Chris M wrote:Anyone that can't see that stem-cell research is pro life is a fucking retard.


Funny thing is, the "outrage" I expected seems to be a bit oddly muted. Maybe nobody cared, in the end?
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Postby CitizenDan » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:18 pm

He vetoed this because of his religious beliefs? Bullshit. He's pandering to the every-sperm-is-sacred loonies yet again, just in time for midterm elections.
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Postby Rspaight » Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:01 pm

Sam Brownback on the difference between happy and sad blastocysts:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/posts/200 ... brownback/

Ryan
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