Let's Talk About Politics - with a German

[Andreas]

You know,

I have never really discussed politics with a US citizen. The few times I saw myself drawn into it on some forums, it was a disaster. Any political statement from a German was seen as a personal affront, any slight criticism of Bush was seen as a put-down aimed at all Americans. I tried to stay away.

But I want to give it a try.

So let me start, what do you guys know of German's political situation? Parties, movements, majority mindets?
What do you think are the major issues that set Germans and USAmericans apart politically?
What is the common ground?

And how on earth could a modern country like the US still allow something as inhuman as death penalty?

[Matt]

And how on earth could a modern country like the US still allow something as inhuman as death penalty?

How should society deal with people that commit murder?

[Andreas]

How should society deal with people that commit murder?

Life sentence, with the possibility of a pardon after 20 years in the less extreme cases.

[Matt]

Andreas, I have to consider if the notion that violent crimes are much more prevalent in America than Germany is relevant here.

I hear about them all the time on the news where I am.

[Andreas]

Matt,

I don't really see how that would be relevant.

Violence crimes are usually commited a) in a state where the criminal does not think about the consequences at all or b) under the assumption that one will not get caught. Therefore, the threat of death penalty is not a usable tool to reduce murder rates.

[lukpac]

How should society deal with people that commit murder?

What good does killing them do?

And, Andreas, I can't say I know much of anything about German politics/government.

[Matt]

Fair enough Andreas, I see your point.

I feel that knowing you would get out of jail in probably less than 20 years for committing murder is not enough of a deterrent.

Consider this excerpt from the DOJ website regarding Felony Sentences in State Courts:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/fssc02.txt

"The mean prison sentence for murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
was 18 years and 9 months; the median was 20 years.

Life sentences are rare among convicted felons, whether measured as
a percentage of all sentences (0.5%) or as a percentage of prison
sentences (1.1%). However, among the 8,990 persons convicted of
murder or nonnegligent manslaughter, 24.1% were sentenced to life in
prison.

Not all 8,990 persons convicted of murder or nonnegligent manslaughter were
subject to the death penalty. Twelve States did not authorize the death
penalty in 2002. In the 38 States that did, only certain types of murder
were capital offenses.

Based on data collected by BJS in the National Prisoners Statistics
program, 27 States received 154 prisoners under sentence of death in
2002.***Footnote 2: See Capital Punishment, 2002, NCJ 201848,
November 2003.***"

This doesn't seem like a high percentage are getting the death penalty to me. Also, one can not deny the whole issue has been politicized.

[Matt]

How should society deal with people that commit murder?

What good does killing them do?

As opposed to life in prison?

[Andreas]

This doesn't seem like a high percentage are getting the death penalty to me. Also, one can not deny the whole issue has been politicized.

Well, compared to zero in most European countries, it is still a lot.

You might find it interesting that in polls, about 30% to 40% of Germans do favor death penalty for capital crimes. That percentage has been constant over the years.

[Rspaight]

Germany has a homicide rate of 1.15 per 100,000. The US is 5.56 -- nearly five times higher.

http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf

Our murder rate is considerably higher than any Western European country. So the death penalty doesn't seem to be helping us very much.

So let me start, what do you guys know of German's political situation? Parties, movements, majority mindets?

I don't know as much as I should. I know that reunification is still a factor after 15 years, I know that immigration is a huge issue that the right-of-center parties are gaining ground with (and the the more extreme right-wing parties are getting an audience with), but I'm not as informed as I'd like to be.

Ryan

[lukpac]

As opposed to life in prison?

Yep.

[Andreas]

I know that immigration is a huge issue that the right-of-center parties are gaining ground with (and the the more extreme right-wing parties are getting an audience with)

True to some extent. However, the extreme right did not gain any significant vote in last year's national election. The "big" five parties combined 96.1% of the votes, and the remaining 3.9% were split between a lot of small fractions, only some of which are right-extreme. The success of right-extreme parties is usually limited to regional elections, caused by frustration with the governing parties and simple protest.

[MK]

The sweet satisfaction of revenge, of course.

In all seriousness, I've got mixed feelings about the morality of killing a person for a heinous crime, but look at everything that's happened in the last ten years. Hell, look at Illinois alone, at every botched case on death row. Totally irresponsible, there's absolutely no way I can support the death penalty until they fix it, and so far, they've done jack-shit.

This past year, Texas executed a man who was probably innocent, but found guilty based on a half-assed, erroneous assessment of a crime scene (it involved a fire and the man's baby...I think it posted it here somewhere).

[Chris M]

What's a hoot is all of these pro life/pro death penalty folks.

[Matt]

As opposed to life in prison?

Yep.

http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/410/410lect15.htm

Rather than a re-hash of an old argument, there are common arguments for and against the death penalty on the web page above.