NPR Stupidity - Juan Williams is a hack

Expect plenty of disagreement. Just keep it civil.
Ess Ay Cee Dee
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Postby Ess Ay Cee Dee » Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:51 pm

Rspaight wrote:The only satifisfaction I take in Bush's victory is that he's going to get stuck with the business end of his first term.


Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how he deals with this fucking quagmire in Iraq.

The thing that really scares me about this second term is that he has a license to go hog-wild now. He doesn't have to worry at all about another term, since two's the limit. Get ready for some of the craziest, most irresponsible shit in US history.

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Rspaight
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Postby Rspaight » Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:59 pm

Yep, and he's got bigger majorities in the Senate and House now. Look for more tax cuts, Social Security privatization, tort reform, and wacky judges as far as the eye can see.

I hope they replace Daschle with someone (male or female) in possession of actual testicles. The more I think about it, the more I'm happy he's gone.

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

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dudelsack
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Postby dudelsack » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:31 pm

Rspaight wrote:
I hope they replace Daschle with someone (male or female) in possession of actual testicles. The more I think about it, the more I'm happy he's gone.



You ain't kidding. Hope Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, or someone with a pulse gets to take over the Dems now. Same with Gephardt - could we please shoot him full of horse tranquilizers and shove him into the Missisippi? Is anyone against that?

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Rspaight
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Postby Rspaight » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:32 pm

I thought Pelosi actually exhibited some signs of life this year. She can stay.

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

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Patrick M
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Postby Patrick M » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:53 pm

Ess Ay Cee Dee wrote:The thing that really scares me about this second term is that he has a license to go hog-wild now. He doesn't have to worry at all about another term, since two's the limit. Get ready for some of the craziest, most irresponsible shit in US history.

And no Colin Powell.
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dudelsack
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Postby dudelsack » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:56 pm

Patrick M wrote:
Ess Ay Cee Dee wrote:The thing that really scares me about this second term is that he has a license to go hog-wild now. He doesn't have to worry at all about another term, since two's the limit. Get ready for some of the craziest, most irresponsible shit in US history.

And no Colin Powell.


As though he made a goddamn bit of difference during the last four years.

Or maybe he DID. Scary!

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Patrick M
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Postby Patrick M » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:02 pm

Well, we *had* one realist in the bunch. One voice of reason. One guy who actually had some war experience, adding his suggestions of restraint to a bunch of bloodthirsty chickenhawks.

Now he's gone. Expect him to be replaced with someone with a more PNAC-friendly agenda.
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Xenu
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Postby Xenu » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:37 pm

I assume you mean "realist" in the "in touch with reality" vein, and not the Kenneth Waltz political science vein?
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Patrick M
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Postby Patrick M » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:17 pm

http://www.csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/neoConQuiz.pl

Realist
Realists…

* Are guided more by practical considerations than ideological vision
* Believe US power is crucial to successful diplomacy - and vice versa
* Don't want US policy options unduly limited by world opinion or ethical considerations
* Believe strong alliances are important to US interests
* Weigh the political costs of foreign action
* Believe foreign intervention must be dictated by compelling national interest

Historical realist: President Dwight D. Eisenhower
Modern realist: Secretary of State Colin Powell
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Postby Dob » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:03 pm

lukpac wrote:Read the comments.

While I don't share your views on gun control, IMO you made an excellent point with this rhetorical question:
If the government does come knocking, what good is a gun? Or even a house full of guns?

It's baffling how many 2nd amendment enthusiasts can't grasp this simple truth...like Terry.
Dob
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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:13 pm

Mind you many of my "views" in that thread were for rhetorical purposes. While I personally think we'd be better off with nothing more than hunting weapons, and wouldn't shed a tear if all guns were banned, gun control isn't terribly high on my list...except when debating Terry.
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Rspaight
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Postby Rspaight » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:32 pm

It's interesting how many otherwise reasonable people get hung up on gun control. I guess it's a matter of how dogmatic you are about libertarianism, or maybe just the symbolic value of taking up arms against your oppressors, or maybe some otherwise well-adjusted people just *really like guns*. I dunno.

Selling gun control is in many ways just as much an appeal to fear as selling opposition to gun control. Many people on both the left and the right are way too quick to ban stuff they don't like. I don't trust that reaction, it almost never results in reasonable policy. (Except for public smoking bans -- I hypocritically endorse those wholeheartedly. So there.)

Like I said before, private gun ownership is fine, but some commonsense measures to keep track of the stupid things seem like a no-brainer. But don't dare suggest that, or you're a jackbooted lefty pinko radical cowardly government thug (?) out to stomp on the face of the common man, or something like that.

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

Dob
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Postby Dob » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:19 pm

Rspaight wrote:Selling gun control is in many ways just as much an appeal to fear as selling opposition to gun control.

Some people would be aghast at having a gun in the house, others would be aghast at not having one. Fear motivates both...but the fear of not having one does seem to be more irrational.

...some commonsense measures to keep track of the stupid things seem like a no-brainer. But don't dare suggest that, or you're a jackbooted lefty pinko radical cowardly government thug...

The "moderate" pro-gun position (which I lean towards) is of the opinion that the laws currently on the books are sufficient, but the problem is that they are not adequately enforced...either by the BATF or the criminal courts (too much leniency).

It appears that the civil courts (through lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, and probably ammunition manufacturers in the future) will ultimately prove to have the most important opinion.
Dob

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czeskleba
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Postby czeskleba » Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:00 am

Rspaight wrote:The only satifisfaction I take in Bush's victory is that he's going to get stuck with the business end of his first term.


As blogger Mark Evanier put it, the biggest mistake the Democrats made was even fielding a candidate against Bush. If he'd only had himself and his record to run on he would have been toast.

Kerry would have been an ineffectual President. He would have inherited two huge messes (the economy/deficit and the war), and he would have had a Congress determined to undermine and sabotage him at every turn. He would not have been able to solve anything, the best we would have been able to hope for is for him to just keep things from getting worse. He probably would have been unpopular because of this, and an easy, Carteresque target in 2008.

Now we have Bush, who has to try to fix the shit he's messed up, but will most likely make things a LOT worse. Perhaps worse to the point where some of the 52% will start to feel the pain and start to connect the dots. An alcoholic has to hit rock bottom before he sobers up, and maybe America needs to hit rock bottom before it is ready to swear off neo-conservativism.

In 2008 the Republican president and Republican Congress will not be able to blame anyone else for the shit situation we're in... they will have been in power long enough that they have to take responsibility for it.

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Postby czeskleba » Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:02 am

Ess Ay Cee Dee wrote:Who the fuck doesn't believe in "family"? I don't recall any anti-family campaign platforms in recent history.


Don't you know anyone who supports gay marriage, or even civil unions, is bent on destroying the concept of Family?