Why Gallup Shows A Big Bush Lead

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Rspaight
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Why Gallup Shows A Big Bush Lead

Postby Rspaight » Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:12 pm

Biased source, but facts worth knowing.

Why You Should Ignore The Gallup Poll This Morning - And Maybe All Of Theirs

This morning we awoke to the startling news that despite a flurry of different polls this week all showing a tied race, the venerable Gallup Poll, as reported widely in the media (USA Today and CNN) today, showed George W. Bush with a huge 55%-42% lead over John Kerry amongst likely voters. The same Gallup Poll showed an 8-point lead for Bush amongst registered voters (52%-44%). Before you get discouraged by these results, you should be more upset that Gallup gets major media outlets to tout these polls and present a false, disappointing account of the actual state of the race. Why?

Because the Gallup Poll, despite its reputation, assumes that this November 40% of those turning out to vote will be Republicans, and only 33% will be Democrat. You read that correctly. I asked Gallup, who have been very courteous to my requests, to send me this morning their sample breakdowns by party identification for both their likely and registered voter samples they use in these national and I suspect their state polls. This is what I got back this morning:

Likely Voter Sample Party IDs – Poll of September 13-15
Reflected Bush Winning by 55%-42%

Total Sample: 767
GOP: 305 (40%)
Dem: 253 (33%)
Ind: 208 (28%)

Registered Voter Sample Party IDs – Same Poll
Reflected Bush Winning by 52%-44%

Total Sample: 1022
GOP: 381 (38%)
Dem: 336 (33%)
Ind: 298 (30%)

In both polls, Gallup oversamples greatly for the GOP, and undersamples for the Democrats. Worse yet, Gallup just confirmed for me that this is the same sampling methodology they have been using this whole election season, for all their national and state polls.

According to John Zogby himself:

If we look at the three last Presidential elections, the spread was 34% Democrats, 34% Republicans and 33% Independents (in 1992 with Ross Perot in the race); 39% Democrats, 34% Republicans, and 27% Independents in 1996; and 39% Democrats, 35% Republicans and 26% Independents in 2000.


So the Democrats have been 39% of the voting populace in both 1996 and 2000, and the GOP has not been higher than 35% in either of those elections. Yet Gallup trumpets a poll that has consistently used a sample that shows a GOP bias of 40% amongst likely voters and 38% amongst registered voters, and depresses the Democratic portion of the sample down to levels they haven’t been at since a strong three-way race in 1992?

Folks, unless Karl Rove can discourage the Democratic base into staying home in droves and gets the GOP to come out of the woodwork, there is no way in hell that these or any other Gallup Poll is to be taken seriously.

How likely is it that the Democrats will suffer a seven-point difference against the GOP this November or that the GOP will ever hit 40%?

Not very likely.

The real problem here is that Gallup is spreading a false impression of this race. Through its 1992 partnership with two international media outlets (CNN and USA Today), Gallup is telling voters and other media by using badly-sampled polls that the GOP and its candidates are more popular than they really are. Given that Gallup’s CEO is a GOP donor, this should not be a surprise. But it does require us to remind the media, like Susan Page of USA Today, who wrote the lead story on the poll in the morning paper, and other members of the media who cite this poll today, that it is based on a faulty sample composition of 40% GOP and 33% Democratic.
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Grant
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Postby Grant » Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:13 pm

Seems the Republicans and Republican sympathisers will do every evil thing they can to keep their man W in office. It's just good for business.

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Postby Matt » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:14 pm

Grant wrote:Seems the Republicans and Republican sympathisers will do every evil thing they can to keep their man W in office. It's just good for business.


Personally, it seems that poll results are not always an accurate barometer. Naturally, both sides have thier own agendas and can easily distort the results.
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Postby chrischross » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:36 pm

Matt wrote:
Grant wrote:Seems the Republicans and Republican sympathisers will do every evil thing they can to keep their man W in office. It's just good for business.


Personally, it seems that poll results are not always an accurate barometer. Naturally, both sides have thier own agendas and can easily distort the results.


Yes, but Gallup is supposed to be an objective polling organization. The fact that they used 40% Republican vs. 33% Democratic in their sample is a gross distortion of reality. The media is supposed to be objective, and conservatives had had their gripes about the So Called Liberal Media for years. I guess liberals are finally waking up to distortions put out there by the lazy press?

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Postby Matt » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:45 pm

Yes, but Gallup is supposed to be an objective polling organization. The fact that they used 40% Republican vs. 33% Democratic in their sample is a gross distortion of reality.


I know, if true that should hurt their credibility.

The media is supposed to be objective, and conservatives had had their gripes about the So Called Liberal Media for years.


Agreed about the media, which is supposed to be objective. Too bad many sources are not objective. Who can you trust?
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Postby Grant » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:13 am

There was a headline story in the local paper about this very thing yearterday. It laied out pretty much what was stated in Rspaight's post except for Gallup donating money to the GOP.

I would like to believe that the average voter is smart enough to ignore polls, but, sadly, we know better.

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Postby Ess Ay Cee Dee » Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:59 pm

Grant wrote:There was a headline story in the local paper about this very thing yearterday. It laied out pretty much what was stated in Rspaight's post except for Gallup donating money to the GOP.

I would like to believe that the average voter is smart enough to ignore polls, but, sadly, we know better.


I don't know. Call me naive, but I still have enough faith in the electorate to believe that most voters see polls as complete bullshit. I don't think too many "fence sitters" are going to vote one way just because some Gallup poll suggests that a majority of voters are likely to. Then again, I've never found myself sitting on the political fence. I always have my pinko liberal mind made up long before Election Day. :wink:

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Postby chrischross » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:32 am

Ess Ay Cee Dee wrote:I don't know. Call me naive, but I still have enough faith in the electorate to believe that most voters see polls as complete bullshit. I don't think too many "fence sitters" are going to vote one way just because some Gallup poll suggests that a majority of voters are likely to. Then again, I've never found myself sitting on the political fence. I always have my pinko liberal mind made up long before Election Day. :wink:


It's all part of the Rove "air of inevitability" strategy, so successfully used in 2000. You see, if Gallup says it is so, then it must be. Pay no attention to the poll's internals!

People like to think that they are voting for the "winner", even if it is to the detriment of their interests.

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Postby Grant » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:40 am

Ess Ay Cee Dee wrote:
Grant wrote:There was a headline story in the local paper about this very thing yearterday. It laied out pretty much what was stated in Rspaight's post except for Gallup donating money to the GOP.

I would like to believe that the average voter is smart enough to ignore polls, but, sadly, we know better.


I don't know. Call me naive, but I still have enough faith in the electorate to believe that most voters see polls as complete bullshit. I don't think too many "fence sitters" are going to vote one way just because some Gallup poll suggests that a majority of voters are likely to. Then again, I've never found myself sitting on the political fence. I always have my pinko liberal mind made up long before Election Day. :wink:


I work with the public. There are indeed stupid people around that believe in polls.

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Postby Grant » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:44 am

chrischross wrote:
Ess Ay Cee Dee wrote:I don't know. Call me naive, but I still have enough faith in the electorate to believe that most voters see polls as complete bullshit. I don't think too many "fence sitters" are going to vote one way just because some Gallup poll suggests that a majority of voters are likely to. Then again, I've never found myself sitting on the political fence. I always have my pinko liberal mind made up long before Election Day. :wink:


It's all part of the Rove "air of inevitability" strategy, so successfully used in 2000. You see, if Gallup says it is so, then it must be. Pay no attention to the poll's internals!

People like to think that they are voting for the "winner", even if it is to the detriment of their interests.


Right! No one wants to be on the losing side, so they will vote for whomever they think is going to win. That's what makes these phony polls dangerous. The group mentality at work here.

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Postby lukpac » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:34 am

Grant wrote:I work with the public.


That's a relief.
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Postby Ess Ay Cee Dee » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:29 am

Grant wrote:
chrischross wrote:
Ess Ay Cee Dee wrote:I don't know. Call me naive, but I still have enough faith in the electorate to believe that most voters see polls as complete bullshit. I don't think too many "fence sitters" are going to vote one way just because some Gallup poll suggests that a majority of voters are likely to. Then again, I've never found myself sitting on the political fence. I always have my pinko liberal mind made up long before Election Day. :wink:


It's all part of the Rove "air of inevitability" strategy, so successfully used in 2000. You see, if Gallup says it is so, then it must be. Pay no attention to the poll's internals!

People like to think that they are voting for the "winner", even if it is to the detriment of their interests.


Right! No one wants to be on the losing side, so they will vote for whomever they think is going to win. That's what makes these phony polls dangerous. The group mentality at work here.


Hmmmm, maybe we can get Gallup to poll voters about how much they're influenced by polls. That should solve this matter once and for all. :lol:

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Postby Grant » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:24 pm

lukpac wrote:
Grant wrote:I work with the public.


That's a relief.


It's no relief for me! :lol: But, it gives me a first-hand, direct line to how the average American thinks.

I also notice that fewer conservatives are foaming at the mouth this year. But, there has also been a marked increase in clothing, buttons, and bumper stickers supporting Bush. It's also nice to see more Democrats coming out of silence and publically supporting their candidate!

One thing is very interesting, the religious right has been eerilly silent this year. Gee, I wonder if this has anything to do with our old friend the Dick Cheney...

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Postby krabapple » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:32 pm

Matt wrote:
Yes, but Gallup is supposed to be an objective polling organization. The fact that they used 40% Republican vs. 33% Democratic in their sample is a gross distortion of reality.


I know, if true that should hurt their credibility.

The media is supposed to be objective, and conservatives had had their gripes about the So Called Liberal Media for years.


Agreed about the media, which is supposed to be objective. Too bad many sources are not objective. Who can you trust?


These guys seem pretty evenhanded:

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Postby lukpac » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:21 pm

Grant wrote:It's no relief for me! :lol: But, it gives me a first-hand, direct line to how the average American thinks.


My point, as it were, was that it would be pretty hard for anyone to *not* interact with the "public".

But I'm just an ass like that.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD