Fahrenheit 9/11 coming 6/25

[Matt]

http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/exclusives/wahoo/archive/2004/06/archive18.shtml

From the Late Show June 18th:

Michael Moore: "I don't have the answer to this question, but it's a question that Bush needs to answer this year, before this election: Why did the Saudi royals and the bin Laden family get this special treatment?"

David Letterman: "And we absolutely can believe the sources that you've used in assembling this documentary?"

Moore: "Oh yes. It's the New York Times, it's the Wall Street Journal, it's the-"

Letterman: "Well the Times. [Audience laughter] Depending on what day it is."

[Patrick M]

http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/24/news/mi ... heit.reut/

Michael Moore's anti-Bush film breaks the single-day records at the two New York theaters.

....

At the Lincoln Plaza theater, "Fahrenheit 9/11" took in more than $30,000 to top the $24,013 set by "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" in 2000.

[Matt]

Moore or pig?

[lukpac]

Cute.

[Patrick M]

http://www.bushorchimp.com/

[Matt]

http://www.bushorchimp.com/

http://www.sociallyabrasive.com/gomerkerry.htm

[Matt]

http://www.sociallyabrasive.com/gomer_kerry_morph.htm

[lukpac]

I'm glad the level of discourse here has been kicked up a notch, as it were.

[Xenu]

Moore's fat? And stinky? Wow. It's amazing:

a) How many people discovered this at once, and
b) How well it really supplements everyone's anti-F911 arguments.

I mean, I dislike Moore as much as the next anti-polemicist, but jeez, "Moore's film is a piece of worthless fat propaganda, and is what I would expect from such a FAT FATASS FATSO."

or:

"Moore can't control his eating habits. He's probably also a homosexual! Or a child molester! Small barnyard animals!"

[Patrick M]

Fahrenheit 9/11: Thumbs Down
Violates Federal Election Campaign Act

David Bossie
President, Citizens United
Friday, June 25, 2004; 12:00 PM

Filmmaker Michael Moore's documentary, "Fahrenheit 9/11" , is causing quite a stir.

The 112 minute film reflects Moore's take on what happened to the U.S. after the Sept. 11 attacks and how the Bush administration used the tragic events to push its agenda.

Is Moore using the film as a political campaign to defeat President Bush?

Buzz Around Moore's Movie May Be Able to Shake the Election

David Bossie, president of Citizens United, a conservative advocacy group, thinks so and has filed a formal complaint with the Federal Election Commission and other federal government agencies against the film. The group alleges that paid broadcast advertisements for the film are subject to the restrictions and regulatory requirements of federal campaign law.

"Moore has publicly indicated his goal is to impact this election," Bossie said.

Bossie was online Friday, June 25 at Noon ET, to discuss why he gives a thumbs down to the Michael Moore film.

The movie opens in 900 theaters nationwide on Friday.

A transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

_____________________________________________
washingtonpost.com: David Bossie, thanks for being with us today on washingtonpost.com. Fahrenheit 9/11, the Michael Moore movie ... Your organization, Citizens United, has filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission claiming that the marketing of the film violates campaign laws. Are you trying to stop the movie from being advertised or seen?

David Bossie: Thanks to washingtonpost.com for having me today. First off, we know Michael Moore's intention, his ultimate goal, in the creation of his so-called movie, is to defeat President George W. Bush for reelection. Secondly, we also know that Michael Moore as a director, never lets the facts get in the way of a good story. He doesn't exactly have a track record of credibility.

We filed a complaint yesterday with the Federal Election Commission claiming that the advertisements for the film are "electioneering communications" as defined in "McCain-Feingold" and upheld by the Supreme Court.

These advertisements use the name, likeness, image or photo of a federal candidate for office. That can be President Bush or John Kerry.

All we want is Michael Moore to follow the law. McCain-Feingold limits my free speech as well as Michael Moore's.

Let's be clear. 1. They are not a violation today, but will be on July 31st. 2. He is using corporate money to pay for his ads, which is illegal, and 3. He is using foreign money to pay for these ads, which is illegal.

People can read our actual complaint on our Web site, Citizens United.

_______________________
Washington, D.C.: What are you so afraid of? If you feel that President Bush has done a great job in office, then why would one movie sway the voters over his record?

David Bossie: President Bush has done an amazing job as our nation's leader in this war on terror. He has had to deal with an inherited recession, corporate scandals and the Sept. 11th attacks.

This small movie will not move voters either way. The antiwar crowd will rally around it and the President's supporters will be energized by it as well. I disagree with Congressman Rangel that Michael Moore is a journalist. Moore has stated his motivation is to remove President Bush from office.
_______________________
Washington, D.C.: MAYBE you'd have a leg to stand on if the film was being made by John Kerry or the DNC but Michael Moore is not running for office. He's just a citizen showing some facts and adding his opinion. Are citizens not allowed to speak their minds via film? I know conservatives aren't as adamant about the first amendment as they ought to be but isn't this a little over the top? How do you justify a citizen stating his opinions as that much less advertisement time the Dems get?

David Bossie: Michael Moore is not above the law and neither am I. As a matter of fact, I was a plaintiff fighting against McCain-Feingold and went all the way to the Supreme Court arguing your exact point. That all Americans should be able to take part in the election process, but I lost and the Supreme Court restricted all Americans' rights to free speech.

I wish Michael Moore could run these ads because then I would be able to run ads. It is now the law of the land and I don't agree with it but the liberals who fought for campaign finance reform are now sorry that they limited themselves.

_______________________
Oak Ridge, Tenn.: You say "they are not in violation today but will be on July 31st." Isn't it premature for you to complain about the ads? Ads for movies are usually the most intense just before the movie is released, so the frequency of the ads should have fallen quite a bit by July 31.

David Bossie: The FEC law states anyone can file a complaint if there a current or future violation that is about to take place. Also, the FEC needs time to review and investigate this complaint and usually takes 30 to 60 days to rule.

_______________________
Silver Spring, Md.: Firstly, if the FEC rules in your favor, if Moore were to remove images of Bush from the ads post-July 31, would that satisfy the conditions of McCain-Feingold?

Secondly, wouldn't replacing images of Bush from the television advertising surrounding the movie with a simple white-on-black screen stating "This image removed by order of the government," or something similar, have an even more polarizing effect?

David Bossie: Yes, if he simply complies with the law, he can run ads for his movie. Once he takes out all images of all federal candidates he is no longer in violation of the law.

I don't think running blank screens have the same effect, but he can do that if he likes.

_______________________
McLean, Va.: So if you don't think the movie will change any minds, why are you trying so hard to keep it from being advertised?

David Bossie: Because it's the law of the land and he's not above the law.
_______________________
McClean, Va.: "Moore has stated his motivation is to remove President Bush from office." Aren't you motivated to keep Bush in office?

David Bossie: I totally support President Bush and I wish I could run ads against John Kerry to help him. But, I can't. If the laws and rules limit my speech they should limit Michael Moore's as well because he is running anti-Bush ads. Plain and simple.
_______________________
Vienna, Va.: I heard Michael Moore state on the radio this morning that he has never voted in an election. Why do you think someone who has never voted is now trying to be so involved in our nation's politics?

David Bossie: I wish that Michael Moore would participate by voting, it's an essential right that our founding fathers fought and died to give us.

However, Michael Moore has never let the facts get in the way of a good story, his movie is nothing more than left wing propaganda.
_______________________
Columbia, Md.: Does your group run ads on TV at all? And if they do, are any of the ads anti-Kerry or pro-Bush?

David Bossie: Please go to my Web site Citizens United to view all of my ads. Some are pro-Bush and others are anti-Kerry. I am in the public policy business and take the law very seriously. Michael Moore needs to follow the law just as I do.
_______________________
Washington, D.C.:: How do you feel about John and Joan Q. Public? Are they too stupid to be left to their own judgments?

David Bossie: Americans are smart enough to recognize propaganda when they see it. His reputation as a liar are well documented. I don't care if people see the movie. I care that Michael Moore doesn't break the law. His movie is not my problem, his advertising is.
_______________________
Thomaston, Ga.: Have you seen the movie?

David Bossie: No, but I am planning to.
_______________________
David Bossie: Thanks for all of the great questions and thanks to washingtonpost.com for the forum. People can go to my Web site Citizens United to find out more about me and my organization.
_______________________

[Patrick M]

http://www.citizensunited.org/moore.html

[Patrick M]

[url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/27/BAG0T7CUHP1.DTL]Bit part in heated movie release
Oakland man who appears in 'Fahrenheit 9/11' braces for criticism[/url]
- Ryan Kim, Chronicle Staff Writer
Sunday, June 27, 2004

You'd think Oakland resident Barry Reingold would be the first to see "Fahrenheit 9/11," Michael Moore's scathing documentary about President Bush and his response to the Sept. 11 attacks.

He's an ardent progressive, ACLU member and former union representative who once got into an argument at his local gym for saying Bush was worse than Osama bin Laden. In fact, that exchange and its chilling aftermath were included in Moore's documentary, which opened on Friday.

But Reingold, 62, is no hurry to see the controversial film -- which is playing, minus an "R" rating, at the Grand Lake Theater, a few blocks from his house. He received a last-second invitation to see a preview Thursday, but declined after coming down with a cold.

His lack of urgency stems partly from the long lines outside theaters, partly from his belief that the movie won't go far enough.

"I think Michael Moore's agenda is to get Bush out, but I think it (should be) about more than Bush," said Reingold, an independent, on Saturday. "I think it's about the capitalist system, which is inequitable. They're laying people off, cutting off health care, and the few people on top are getting more rich and powerful."

Reingold's misgivings aside, he feels there's an important message to be found in the film about standing up to the Bush administration as it prosecutes the war on terror. He said he's a prime example of the government intimidating its citizens in the name of homeland security.

"I think they totally took advantage of the situation to impose fascist measures and they've singled out people like me that dissent against the powers that be," he said.

Reingold's appearance in Moore's documentary caps an improbable rise from anonymity for the retired operations administrator at Pacific Bell. His wild ride began at his local 24 Hour Fitness gym, a month after the Sept. 11 attacks, during a heated conversation with about 10 other members.

"Bin Laden will never be as big an -hole as Bush because he bombs people for oil profits," Reingold said he told the group.

A week later, while Reingold was taking a nap at his apartment, two FBI agents knocked on the door. They asked about his conversation at the gym. At one point, they reminded him he had the freedom of speech.

"I said, 'With that in mind, that ends the discussion,' " Reingold recalled.

Since his encounter with the FBI, Reingold's story has been retold in papers across the nation, in Canada, in England and on CBS News. Early this year, Michael Moore's people contacted him about appearing in the documentary and later interviewed him at Lake Merritt, near the apartment he shares with his wife.

Reingold, who never met Moore, signed a waiver acknowledging that he was not entitled to any profits from the film.

Though he could use some of the windfall Moore is sure to receive, it would threaten his working-class status, which Reingold clearly enjoys. A San Francisco native, Reingold worked as an elementary school teacher before joining Pacific Bell, helping dole out phone numbers to customers.

While at the phone company, Reingold served as a union shop steward. He is still active with local progressive groups like the ACLU, People United for a Better Oakland and Education Not Incarceration. Despite his distaste for Bush, he said Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry is no better. In fact, if he voted -- which he doesn't -- he wouldn't vote for either of them.

"I think both of them are bad," he said. "I think Kerry is actually worse because he gives the illusion that he's going to do a lot more. Bush has never given that illusion. People know that he's a friend of big business."

Following his first round of media attention, Reingold received a number of calls, including some from critics who cursed him out. Though he's only heard from a few friends who have seen him in the documentary, he expects another raft of calls and letters, which will undoubtedly include some bitter denunciations. He said he's ready for it all.

"I'd be happier if people called me and said, 'It made me think about things,' but I look at this as a positive thing. Hopefully, it will make people think about this and get them actively working together with other working-class people," Reingold said.

E-mail Ryan Kim at rkim@sfchronicle.com.

[Patrick M]

Chris Saldaña, Reporter
Movie Goer Assaulted at Fahrenheit 9/11 Showing

(Jun. 25) -- The highly anticipated film, Fahrenheit 9/11, came with more than just controversy at one Las Vegas movie theatre. Moviegoer, Richard Streeter, was one of the many who made his way to a theatre to see what the hype was about. After viewing the film, he was greeted outside the theatre by members of the Las Vegas MoveOn.org.

The group was handing out leaflets on the importance of the film. Streeter voiced his view on the movie, "I made the comment, apples and oranges -- Kerry, Bush -- one's no better than the other. You really ain't got much of a choice. This guy comes up to me and says, 'Oh yeah?' " Streeter was then spat on by the same man.

He attempted to call police to report the incident when he was told not to, "A guy standing next to him said why don't you drop it. I said, 'No, I'm calling the police. I'm exercising my right as a citizen, I've been assaulted.' "

But the horror kept on growing for Streeter as he walked to his car on the phone with police, "This guy turns, and totally by surprise takes his hand and bam! It was a big guy. Shoved me onto the ground, I hit my head." A police report has been filed.

The film is a portrayal of President Bush and his administration. Filmmaker Michael Moore admits Fahrenheit 9/11 is his personal attack on the President and intends to change voters' minds. The President's supporters say the movie is being used for propaganda.

[Rspaight]

I made the comment, apples and oranges -- Kerry, Bush -- one's no better than the other.

Heh.

Ryan

[lukpac]

Fahrenheit fuss: What exactly was everyone expecting?
By Dante Chinni
WASHINGTON - You may love Michael Moore or you may hate Michael Moore. You may say that Mr. Moore is a one-man force for truth and justice out to save America from itself. Or you may say that Moore is a venomous character assassin who will say whatever it takes to get the president.

But whatever you say about Moore, don't call him objective. Don't say he's out to give a balanced view of anything. He'll tell you that much. His films are made with a definite point of view, a liberal point of view, and he does not apologize for it. This distinction is important, because it should affect how you view his latest adventure in filmmaking, "Fahrenheit 9/11" - if, indeed, you view it at all.

"Fahrenheit" is, as one might expect from Moore, a mishmash of his political views and cheap shots at the president punctuated by an occasional flash of solid documentary filmmaking tied together by the events of the past three-plus years.

At times it pointlessly meanders, as it does in the beginning when it tries to tie the president's relationship with the Saudis to everything from secret flights out of the US after 9/11 to the sinking of Lusitania. (OK, he doesn't really do that, but I'm sure he could if he tried.)

At times it is poignant, as when Moore's cameras are trained at US soldiers in Iraq who say things both sublime and ridiculous. And Moore makes many points people have made (correctly) about the president ad nauseum - the rush into Iraq, the stretch to link Al Qaeda and Iraq.

If you haven't been paying close attention to the news in the past few years and you are looking for a case against the president, you will love this film. If you support the president, you may leave the film angry, but also concerned. Moore's gifts for audiovisual irony and sarcasm along with his over-the-top pathos can be convincing. On top of that, his target isn't exactly difficult to hit. Mr. Bush's oratorical miscues don't need much help from Moore to make the president look like a boob.

So there you have it, "Fahrenheit 9/11" in a nutshell. All of which leaves one to wonder, what exactly is all the fuss about? We know Moore and we know the president, so what exactly was everyone expecting? The real question around the media's Fahrenheit frenzy isn't "What will the movie say?" It's "Why is everyone so shocked or excited by it?"

Michael Moore is not a journalist. He has become the left's answer to Rush Limbaugh, engaging in the same sort of half-truth-telling that Rush does. Lies? Maybe. Sometimes. But more often, it's about telling one side of the story and then using a selection of damning facts to fill in the rest.

Moore isn't exactly the mirror image of Rush. His everyman "common sense" is generally more piercing than Rush's over-the-top gusto, and it is often put together in a cleverer fashion. But, make no mistake; it's the same game.

So what's wrong with that? Well, nothing really. The nation's liberals should be able to play in the same garden of self-affirmation as its conservatives if they so desire - and judging by last weekend's $21.8 million box office for "Fahrenheit," they do so desire.

But in attacking the president for things like taking too many vacations or golfing while discussing terrorism, Moore goes off point.

The case against Bush's presidency is not difficult to make. The list of failed or floundering policies run from the decisions in Iraq through No Child Left Behind to the federal deficits that stretch out as far as the eye can see. But those things are about poor decisions, not the president's inability to pronounce the word "nuclear" correctly, or the amount of time he spends on his ranch. And that's where Moore's movie and his general approach go astray.

In his eagerness to paint the president with the most negative brush possible, he has jumbled up some solid critiques with everything else he could think of. The end result is more of a diatribe than a documentary, and the more legitimate stuff will be difficult for some to ferret out - media literacy is not an American strength.

Yes, this is part of politics these days. And yes, every negative political ad you see in the next four months will be full of the same half-truths and spin. And yes, Moore is only doing on the silver screen what Rush Limbaugh and company do on the AM dial everyday.

But in the end, all that means is the nation's political dialogue - already a mess - is going to get sloppier.