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...and assuming you own 'Dark Side of the Moon' SACD.

Would you please try digitizing the analog output of the stereo SACD version of 'Great Gig in the Sky'? Use whatever bit depth /sampling rate you feel appropriate so long as it's at least 16/44. Adjust to a reasonable recording level. Make sure you're using the stereo layer, and turn off or bypass your bass management when doing the transfer. Run the signal from the l/r channels of the multi-channel out. Note what the player's channel levels are set to.

A bit of a pain, I know but I'm getting some strange results doing this myself and I want to check them against some independent sources.

I'm finding that my current uni-player, at default SACD setting (SACD channel output levels set at 0 dB trim/boost), is outputting clipped signal for this track, as indicated by flattops in the captured .wav view (regardless of the recording level). The only way to make the .wav look unclipped is to lower the left and right output levels in the SACD channel level setup menu. This is similar to what my former uni-player did if I used the 'Fixed' channel level option; that was equivalent to +6 dB gain using its 'Variable' setting. I don't know why manufacturers do this sort of thing, but this is two players now by two different makers (Pioneer and Yamaha) that have. I'm curious to see if other people's players do this too. The Yammy btw has a separate set of channel level settings for SACD vs DVD/CD. ; the Pio did not.

The really weird thing to me, though, is that if I use the 'SACD Direct' option on my current player -- which the user manual says bypasses all speaker settings and bass management -- I get the clipped output too.
That suggests that the player is 'natively' overloading the analog SACD output.

I would, but I don't have that one.

I don't have an Sack Dee player in proximity to the Pee Cee at the moment because of various Dee Vee Dee player disasters. But I should be able to get to it next week, if no one else beats me to it.

Ryan

Rspaight wrote:I don't have an Sack Dee player in proximity to the Pee Cee at the moment because of various Dee Vee Dee player disasters. But I should be able to get to it next week, if no one else beats me to it.

Ryan

I'm happy to have input from more than one person, so don't let that stop you.

I've got to do some rearranging this weekend so I could pop the old Sack Dee over to the computer to rip this.

Since I posted this thread it's been suggested to me (on hydrogenaudio) that the lower voltage range of soundcards is resulting in the clipping artifact at input -- one that wouldn't exist with consumer hifi equipment. And it is true I've been sending the signal direct from the player to the soundcard (M-Audio 2496) so this is another possibility.

krabapple wrote:Since I posted this thread it's been suggested to me (on hydrogenaudio) that the lower voltage range of soundcards is resulting in the clipping artifact at input -- one that wouldn't exist with consumer hifi equipment. And it is true I've been sending the signal direct from the player to the soundcard (M-Audio 2496) so this is another possibility.

Do you have a mixer of some sort to place inline before the sound card? How do you set your record level?

lukpac wrote:

krabapple wrote:Since I posted this thread it's been suggested to me (on hydrogenaudio) that the lower voltage range of soundcards is resulting in the clipping artifact at input -- one that wouldn't exist with consumer hifi equipment. And it is true I've been sending the signal direct from the player to the soundcard (M-Audio 2496) so this is another possibility.

Do you have a mixer of some sort to place inline before the sound card? How do you set your record level?

Record level can be set via my soundcard mixer. However, even when that was set so that there were no peaks near 0, the input was still clipped -- in other words, it looked just like a clipped wav that had been 'normalized' down. The only way to correct that with the setup I am using (player analog out --> soundcard analog in) was to set the volume lower in the player itself -- prior to output.

And I do now seem to recall some discussion on Usenet of the 2496 having this characteristic -- low input voltage limits.

ah, here 'tis

Controling recording level with Audiophile 2496

krabapple wrote:Record level can be set via my soundcard mixer. However, even when that was set so that there were no peaks near 0, the input was still clipped -- in other words, it looked just like a clipped wav that had been 'normalized' down. The only way to correct that with the setup I am using (player analog out --> soundcard analog in) was to set the volume lower in the player itself -- prior to output.

And I do now seem to recall some discussion on Usenet of the 2496 having this characteristic -- low input voltage limits.

AFAIK, any level changes would be post-A/D conversion. Which pretty much means if you want the best results (be they non-clipped or utilizing as many bits as possible), you really need an external level control.

http://forums.lukpac.org/viewtopic.php?t=1313

lukpac wrote:

krabapple wrote:Record level can be set via my soundcard mixer. However, even when that was set so that there were no peaks near 0, the input was still clipped -- in other words, it looked just like a clipped wav that had been 'normalized' down. The only way to correct that with the setup I am using (player analog out --> soundcard analog in) was to set the volume lower in the player itself -- prior to output.

And I do now seem to recall some discussion on Usenet of the 2496 having this characteristic -- low input voltage limits.

AFAIK, any level changes would be post-A/D conversion. Which pretty much means if you want the best results (be they non-clipped or utilizing as many bits as possible), you really need an external level control.

http://forums.lukpac.org/viewtopic.php?t=1313

Well, as I've said, I can also trim the analog output level within the player itself, so long as I don't use 'SACD Direct'. I also have an outboard Gemini mixer that I use for vinyl transfers (it has line and phono inputs), that I could use as a pre-soundcard trim-pot. Whether these methods result in significantly different wavs, is something I'd have to check.