MoFi CDR blanks

From Edison cylinders to pre-amps to ProTools: talk about it here.
User avatar
Xenu
Sellout
Posts: 2209
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:15 pm

MoFi CDR blanks

Postby Xenu » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:28 pm

There's a full-of-misinformation thread going on at SH.TV currently (at http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showt ... hp?t=45614 , if you're interested), and someone in the middle decided to post a link to those wretchedly-trendy MoFi CDRs.

From http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/de ... =AMFCDR25B:
Anyone who has ever damaged a CD-R through abrasion or excessive exposure to heat or light knows that CD-Rs are an imperfect technology and it’s all too facile and common to lose priceless data. For ocassions when you can’t afford to endanger your data, Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab is proud to introduce the Ultradisc CD-R. Our 24KT Gold ULTRADISC CD-R is designed for professional, data critical, music and graphic archival applications, and all other data storage where there is no margin for loss or error. These specially-gold-plated ULTRADISC CD-Rs ensure excellent reflectivity, are non corrosive, and have dramatically enhanced resistance to light and heat. Additional features include instantaneous pit burning (burst burning) for superior pit formation and extremely low to no error rate; and an added, patented, scratch resistant, protective surface.


Once again, audiophiles declare something "imperfect" in order to offer some sort of "improved" version. Blech.

BTW, is it just me or is "facile" in the first sentence a really unfortunate synonym for "easy?" Dictionary.com insists that "easy" is the first definition of the word, but I thought that the "artificial" definition was far more common.
-------------
"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4589
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby lukpac » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:45 pm

Rob LoVerde wrote:Strictly from a tech standpoint, think of it this way:

Disc A has it's own errors. Copy that to disc B and you have both discs' errors. Copy disc B to disc C and you have all three discs' errors on one disc. You get the idea...

Will it sound different? Ask three people, you'll get four answers...


Apparently DIGITALLY IDENTICAL means nothing to some people.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

User avatar
Patrick M
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 6:33 pm
Location: LukPac Land

Postby Patrick M » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:48 pm

From m-w.com:

1 a (1) : easily accomplished or attained <a facile victory> (2) : SPECIOUS, SUPERFICIAL <I am not concerned ... with offering any facile solution for so complex a problem -- T. S. Eliot> b : used or comprehended with ease c : readily manifested and often lacking sincerity or depth <facile tears>
Chuck thinks that I look to good to be a computer geek. I think that I know too much about interface design, css, xhtml, php, asp, perl, and ia (too name a few things) to not be one.

User avatar
Xenu
Sellout
Posts: 2209
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:15 pm

Postby Xenu » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:52 pm

Yeah. That said, there's still the "specious" connotation lurking in there. I don't think it's a great synonym.

Re: Rob's post:

Strictly from a tech standpoint, think of it this way:

Disc A has it's own errors. Copy that to disc B and you have both discs' errors. Copy disc B to disc C and you have all three discs' errors on one disc. You get the idea...


Yeah, that bothered me also. That's what happens with analog, but not digital. Now, it's true that if some step goes wrong in the DAE stage, those errors might be multiplied down to future copies. But something has to go seriously, this-file-lacks-integrity wrong.

Heck, let's take this scenario. You copy a disc to an INCREDIBLY old disc on the verge of total collapse. It writes, but stays barely within the error threshold. You do this four times, each time extracing from the disc in secure mode. Result? Digitally identical WAVs. If something stays "barely within the error threshold"--i.e. no sectors are unreadable, and something like EAC can pull good data--the errors are "erased" each time the audio is extracted.
-------------

"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4589
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby lukpac » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:57 pm

VD wrote:Well, perhaps you can enlighten me regarding this new mastering marvel that I'm unaware of. I'm all ears and I've heard all of the "it's the same or better" talk before and still my opinion remains the same after doing the comparisons. Where can I buy it, how much will it cost, and will anyone accept a final diagnosis from me?


According to VD, one copy (a UD) can sound better than an identical copy (UDII). If we assume that to be the case, what's preventing a copy of the UDII from sounding as good as the UD (ie, *better*)?
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

Dob
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Detroit

Postby Dob » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:17 pm

SPECIOUS, SUPERFICIAL <I am not concerned ... with offering any facile solution for so complex a problem -- T. S. Eliot> c : readily manifested and often lacking sincerity or depth <facile tears>

Those are closest to what I think when I hear "facile." It's derogatory...there's an implication of superficiality. I've never understood it to be synonymous with "easy."
Dob
-------------------
"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance" -- HL Mencken

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4589
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby lukpac » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:30 pm

Well, I was tought in Spanish class that "facil" means easy, so...
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

User avatar
Rspaight
Posts: 4384
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:48 am
Location: The Reality-Based Community
Contact:

Postby Rspaight » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:35 pm

I've never understood it to be synonymous with "easy."


It *can* be used as a synonym for "easy" (after all, there's no derogatory implication for "facility"), but only if you want to sound like you're trying to be smarter than you really are. It's a poor choice in the above context.

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

User avatar
Crummy Old Label Avatar
Posts: 1226
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:55 pm
Location: Out of my fucking mind

Postby Crummy Old Label Avatar » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:32 pm

But are these Mobile Fidelity CD-Rs optimized for UDI or UDII? I'll wait until the audiofphools battle it out on numerous threads before I buy!

Maybe markl can tell us something about that. After all, he did submit this valuable opinion on CD-R's at SDMEtv:

markl wrote:I do like the black CD-Rs (I use the hard-to-find Memorex from 2002, not the newer stock), they have a rich, warmer, and more "analog-y" sound. The Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs also sound noticeably better than the budget discs you can buy. They are a *little* on the bright side, but sound almost identical to the original CD in tone and timbre, but a little more "crisp" and clear.


http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showp ... stcount=14

Ah, markl, we'd be lost without your wisdom! The numero uno annoying simpleton doofus at Head-Fi.org. I remember him there, and after one too many futile "discussions" with this big dumb oaf, I stopped looking at Head-Fi. He was the one who always insisted that "today's louder remasters" were always superior to "archaic old 80s CDs", along with a lot of shrill "It's your moral DUTY to support SACD!" brain spasms. Of course, now that he's ingratiated himself into the the SDME elite (I'm sure he's fishing for gorfdom), he's done an about face on just about every dumb earnest opinion he ever had over at Head-Fi. Now he's one annoying ass-kissing simpleton doofus among many.
If you love Hi-REZ TAPE HISS, you're REALLY going to love Stereo Central

Ess Ay Cee Dee
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:35 pm
Contact:

Postby Ess Ay Cee Dee » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:35 pm

I think he needs to be stripped of his Scott Walker avatar. It's much too cool for his dumb ass.

User avatar
Crummy Old Label Avatar
Posts: 1226
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:55 pm
Location: Out of my fucking mind

Postby Crummy Old Label Avatar » Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:01 pm

Ess Ay Cee Dee wrote:I think he needs to be stripped of his Scott Walker avatar. It's much too cool for his dumb ass.


When I said something about his Scott Walker avatar over at Head-Fi (yeah, he used it there as well), he got all excited, declaiming, "I really thought I was the only person in the world who knew about Scott Walker!!!! How in the world do you know about Scott????????!!!!"

As I said, doofus par excellence.
If you love Hi-REZ TAPE HISS, you're REALLY going to love Stereo Central

Dob
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Detroit

Postby Dob » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:14 pm

Crummy Old Label Avatar wrote:...he got all excited, declaiming, "I really thought I was the only person in the world who knew about Scott Walker!!!!"

...except for all those British fans that made his second album reach number one in the U.K., and put his first four albums in the top ten.

I hope markl was being facetious.
Dob

-------------------

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance" -- HL Mencken

Kjoerup
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:33 am

Postby Kjoerup » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:17 pm

Dob wrote:
Crummy Old Label Avatar wrote:...he got all excited, declaiming, "I really thought I was the only person in the world who knew about Scott Walker!!!!"

...except for all those British fans that made his second album reach number one in the U.K., and put his first four albums in the top ten.

I hope markl was being facetious.


Unfortunately not. Mark is a 22 year-old know-it-all from Dallas or Houston or some such place. I think concepts such as irony or sarcasm are beyond his dumb earnestness.

Matt
Posts: 539
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:24 pm
What color are leaves?: Green
Spam?: No
Location: People's Republic of Maryland

Postby Matt » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:28 am

Some preliminary quality testing on the Mofi blanks:

http://tinyurl.com/4cqjk
-Matt

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4589
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby lukpac » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:41 am

Unlike commonly used CD-Rs containing Cyanine (blue/green dye) or Metal Azo (deep blue dye), which lose their characteristics quickly from exposure to light and heat, the 24KT Gold ULTRADISC CD-R utilizes a patented photosensitive dye which ensures accurate burning and stability, plus exceptional longevity and durability.


So, what, phthalocyanine?

Due to this instantaneous reaction, precise pit edges are formed. This is crucial for the laser pickup to accurately interpret the information, and thereby reducing or eliminating the use of interpolation/error correction circuitry.


THE USE OF ERROR CORRECTION DOES NOT MEAN YOUR DATA STREAM HAS ERRORS.

When will people learn that "error on disc" does not mean "error in sound". 2.5mm is *huge* in terms of pinholes/scratches/etc.

http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/t142274.html

With audio CDs, CIRC can correct burst errors up to 3874 consecutive erroneous bits or symbols (2.5 mm track length) and can well conceal 13,282 error bits (8.7 mm) and marginally conceal 15,500 bits.
...
Digital audio data can be copied with high reliability.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD