I love modern digital AVR technology

[krabapple]

My Pioneer VSX-56txi av receiver arrived yesterday, and I spent a few hours setting it up. It's built like a tank and looks rad. The most funnest part, though, is the acoustic calibration/EQ that this thing can do. Using a little mic you set up at the listening position, it reads the ambient noise in the room, the reverb characteristics, the speaker sizes and distances -- all by outputting an amusing series of noises and machine-gun burps -- and sets everything all up automatically, EQ'ing each channel separately. Better yet, if I want to get really jiggy, I can use the 'professional calibration ' mode and hook the thing up to my laptop for acoustic measurement readout -- and then use *that* to *manually* tweak all the settings.

How does it sound after initial calilbration? Well, I played a fairly dodgy old live radio broadcast of Yes, that I'd played a day or two previously with my old setup -- and damn if the keyboards weren't *notably* clearer and the PLII-surround FX notably more surroundy. It sounded good. Probably in part because,.according to the machine, it had jacked up the treble a bit on my right front speaker, while cutting the 250 Hz a bit elsewhere. Heaven knows wwhat a *good* recording will sound like., when I play with it tonight. Maybe even Wheels of Fire will sound less crap. (Btw, I can switch the calibration in and out, to compare to 'straight' output)

Also, since this box has ilink, once I trade my current uni-player for one with ilink (Yamaha claims to have on out next month for $700 MSRP), I'll also have one-cable connectivity for all DVDs , CDs, and hi-rez music, with complete bass management, delay and whatnot.

All I need after that is something to EQ the sub (the recevier can only EQ stuff above 60 Hz or so; the way I have it set, it only touches >80Hz) and I just might reach nirvana.

What I'm saying is: it's a great time to be alive, if you are an audio tweak-head who wants *real* results, rather than Shakti stones. Share my delight, dammit.

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

nt

[Rspaight]

Here's one I ran across that's like a hybrid between a receiver and a network switch (which isn't such a far-fetched comparison, come to think of it). You actually can add cards to it for different kinds of functionality.

http://tinyurl.com/5xb9o

I agree, it is a time of wonders. (I have no idea what that thing costs, but it's cool as hell -- much cooler than $40K pair of spiritually enlightening speakers.)

And here's a little jewel I got for Christmas:

http://tinyurl.com/6d2qp

That's right, it's a universal remote you program via a USB connection. You pull down the latest remote codes from the Web, and then can assign any button to any function on any of the remotes for your components, as well as set up easy-to-use "activities" to control things like "Watch TV", "Watch a DVD," "Listen to Music" and so on.

The only problem is, now I end up wasting the same time tweaking the remote's configuration that I used to waste juggling four remotes to accomplish something. Oh, well.

Ryan

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

nt

[krabapple]

I've spent many precious hours of my life using a JP1 interface to my PC to do advanced programming of my Radio Shack remotes. It all started when I found this page. Once you get into doing it it's rather addictive.

Fortunately the remote that came with my new Pioneer AVR is so smart out of the box, I probably won't need to re-program and use my RS remotes. Probably.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

Well, it's not quite a VSX-56txi, but I think I've found the best bargain out there: the Pioneer VSX-D912-K. Recently, my beloved warhorse Adcom pre-amp gave up the ghost after 14 years of loyal service (I have other ideas for the Adcom power amp - still going strong). On a whim, I picked up this av receiver at Costco for a laughable $249, not expecting much. How could I, really? 110 wpc, 7.1 for under $300? Well, actually I half-expected I'd return it following the inevitable disappointment.

But, damn! I cannot fucking believe how good this receiver sounds! Now I don't mean "it's surprisingly passable for a measly $300".... I mean, my god, 10 years ago you'd have to shell out a few grand to get sound like this. I'm not kidding. I am simply astonished.

I'll post more as soon as I get over the initial shock.

I know this isn't in the class of the VSX-56txi, but have you ever heard this receiver, krabapple? Just curious.

[lukpac]

Does it have a phono stage?

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

nt

[krabapple]

Being a stone objectivist, I don't imagine that the 56txi or the D912 actually would sound any different at all
from an amp made ten years ago, or 'the very best separates', much less each other, in a blind trial where levels were matched to within 0.1 dB, and you were playing a straight two-channel sample. But it's all really about the features and DSP these days, not the straight two-channel passthrough. *That's* where differences start to kick in.
Amps/receivers are otherwise commodities these days.

Anyway, the 56txi has a phono stage (which can be toggled to be a line stage, if desired!) . The D912 doesn't appear to have one (based on specs I see here
but otherwise it has all the stuff I'd want at minimum -- DPLII, DD/DTS, auto-setup/room EQ, plenty of digital inputs., learning remote. At $300 that's a good bargain.

Btw, if you want a cheap phono preamp, Best Buy/Circuit City often has one in a blister-pak for around $30. Also, pawn shops: there's always a few Gemini premaps/mixers for sale at my local one, doubtless sold by kids who dreamed of being DJs. I picked up one for $25 and use it to do LP transfers.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

Does it have a phono stage?

No phono stage. I don't believe that the VSX-56txi has one either. Krabapple can tell us for certain. I'm not into vinyl these days, so I don't miss the phono stage at all. One thing I have noticed from glancing at the many unsolicited catalogs I receive in the mail is that a lot of current D.J. turntables have the phono pre-amp onboard now (and, strangely, digital outputs as well). Is this becoming par for the course with all turntables? And like Ess Ay Cee Dee said, if need be, you can always build your own phono stage for next to nothing.

I truly believe that the new crop of digital A/V receivers are the best bargains in audio right now. The technology keeps improving and getting cheaper and cheaper.

I'm in the market for a new one and I'm probably going to order a Panasonic SA-XR50. It's a 6.1 receiver that's totally digital. The damn thing is only 2 or 3 inches high and weighs a measly 8 pounds. However, the reviews are unbelievably positive. Many users are saying that it rivals the sound of very expensive separates, especially if you connect a CD or DVD player to one of the coaxial or optical inputs.

Precisely. I spent around $3000 in 1991 in order to get decent 2 channel sound, and now this damn $270 (that was the total with tax, if you're a Costco member) AV receiver is just as good, if not better. (Plus it also gives me an additional 5.1 channels to play with.) Again, I am just astounded, wondering how this is possible. As krabapple said, now is truly a wonderful time indeed.

I've read nothing but raves about the Panasonic SA-XR50. Let us know your impressions when you finally get it.

I'm not under any delusion that my VSX-D912-K is in the same league with krabapple's Elite VSX-56txi, but I'm willing to wager that these two siblings are more alike than they are different.

I've always been partial to Pioneer components. My CD player -- a Pioneer Elite PD65 has been going strong ever since I bought it in early 1993. The Elite series are of course the cream of the crop, but even run of the mill Pioneer is nothing to sneer at. I bought an entry level 40 wpc Pioneer receiver in 1981. Used it daily for seven years. Finally gave it to my sister, and -- you guessed it -- she's still using it every day.

But back to the VSX-D912-K. Share my glee at what $270 gets you. Let's talk versatility, shall we?

-- Goddam GREAT DAC on the VSX-D912-K. The DAC alone in this thing kicks sand in the face of any multi-thousand $$$ outboard DAC you could buy even a few years ago. I'm so satisfied with the onboard DAC that I'm listening to the CD player and MD deck via the digital connections.

-- It can feed additional amps. Also, one can use the VSX-D912-K as a pre-amp only, if you so desire. I tried this with the Adcom power amp. Conclusion: simply as a pre-amp, this $270 Wunderkind is the equal, maybe the better of a $900 analog pre-amp from a decade ago. So ...

-- ... even if I hated the power stage of this thing, I'd be totally, unabashedly satisfied with it merely as a replacement for my dead 2-channel pre-amp. Of course it was the power stage I expected to be the major weak link: "110 wpc x 7 channels for less than $300?" What would YOU expect? But, as I said in my earlier post, the sound -- the sound! -- is nothing short of amazing! How do they do it????

-- Multi-channels/surround/DTS/etc. I admit that this is all very new to me, and the choices and set-ups rather bewildering, but I look forward to playing around with all this.

Conclusions are obvious: Anyone who buys a 2-channel amp/receiver these days is just stupid. As Ess Ay Cee Dee says, even if your setup/source material right now is mainly (or solely) 2-channel, why wouldn't you want these extra options for the future? Besides, I plan to have a great time this week hooking up additional speakers and just fucking around with various setups and settings. Actually, the idea of hearing/manipulating existing stereo material with all of these options/possibilities excites me more than a mere multi-channel mix.

The possibilities at the moment just seem endless!

Yes, I very much share your delight, krabapple.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

Being a stone objectivist, I don't imagine that the 56txi or the D912 actually would sound any different at all
from an amp made ten years ago, or 'the very best separates', much less each other, in a blind trial where levels were matched to within 0.1 dB, and you were playing a straight two-channel sample. But it's all really about the features and DSP these days, not the straight two-channel passthrough. *That's* where differences start to kick in.
Amps/receivers are otherwise commodities these days.

On the whole, I agree with this statement, but I just want to emphasize the important difference between now and ten years ago. A budget of $300 a decade ago would not have gotten you anywhere NEAR the sound that you'll get from the D912 today. (And certainly not seven channels worth!) Don't you just love true progress? I'm loving it, I tell you!

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

nt

[krabapple]

Being a stone objectivist, I don't imagine that the 56txi or the D912 actually would sound any different at all
from an amp made ten years ago, or 'the very best separates', much less each other, in a blind trial where levels were matched to within 0.1 dB, and you were playing a straight two-channel sample. But it's all really about the features and DSP these days, not the straight two-channel passthrough. *That's* where differences start to kick in.
Amps/receivers are otherwise commodities these days.

On the whole, I agree with this statement, but I just want to emphasize the important difference between now and ten years ago. A budget of $300 a decade ago would not have gotten you anywhere NEAR the sound that you'll get from the D912 today. (And certainly not seven channels worth!) Don't you just love true progress? I'm loving it, I tell you!

Well, you see, I have to differ. Ten years ago you could get a competent 2-channel receiver for $300 (say, an NAD). There is no technical reason whatever to expect that it would sound ANY different from your AVR, or mine, when performaing within its limits, as a preamp/amp for 2-channel input.

One *might* argue that as as DAC, it could sound different from a $300 receiver/DAC circa 2005, but that too, wouldn't be anything like a gimme. Blind test/level-match criteria would still apply.

What you wouldn't get in a $300 rig back then, are all the setup and DSP options, and of course, the various multichannel options.

[lukpac]

I've read nothing but raves about the Panasonic SA-XR50. Let us know your impressions when you finally get it.

Will do. I've done some sniffing around on the Web and I've decided to buy the SA-XR25. My research indicates that it's basically the same as the XR50; it's just the previous model. Because it's been discontinued, I can get it for about 100 bucks less than the XR-50. I'm a cheap bastard and I'm not looking for the latest and greatest status symbol, so I'll take the thrifty route.

Get anything yet? We're looking for something in the living room for "home theatre".

This seems pretty nice so far.

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

nt