Luke's "are identical CDs identical?" thread

[lukpac]

Also...interestingly enough my drive doesn't even burn at 1x. At least not in Toast. I selected 1x, but it ended up burning at some much higher speed. Have to wonder if Grant is actually burning at 1x or not.

[krabapple]

David,

I saw that you brought up the ol' jitter article by Roger Nichols over on SHtv: http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost. ... tcount=102

For the record, that little mess was cleared up some time ago and your hunch that Roger was "hearing things" was not too far off:

http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/showpost. ... stcount=46

I like this guy. He's like 'the breath of reason'.

So far this guys sounds like a magician more than an engineer. If he is just listening to the sound of the drives spinning up (conciously or not), that would be a pisser wouldn't it? And I don't mean any offense but you don't read this sort of thing coming from Bob Katz, I don't think.

I do think that we need to realize and truely comprehend how very much we do know (not WE specifically; I'm talking about people who have spent their lives rigorously studying these topics: scientists and mathematicians and even guys like Nika that have really drilled down into it).

Up unto the point that the music passes into your mind and stirs the soul, I believe science has it figured out. After that point, there is plenty enough magestic magic to satisfy me.

as opposed to the Vestman doofus who keeps referring to 'power chords' when he means power cords.

It's annoying that the digital recording process is so very technical now, yet still populated by so many people like Vestman and Hoffman who are essentially *clueless* as to why and how the gear does what it does.

[krabapple]

Andreas, I'm a scientist too. 'Theory' gets too brutalized by the public -- 'evolution, it's just a *theory* -- for me not to call you on that. "Specialists' certainly do have 'theories' about why this phenomenon (perceptually different sounds that are numerically identical) occurs. Two reasobale ones have been proffered:

1) listener bias

2) playback gear differences

Either one explains the phenomenone quite nicely, if true. Listener bias isn't sheer speculation, because it has CERTAINLY shown itself to be a common actor in perception.
In fact, that's why it MUST be ruled out before other , more esoteric explanations are to be believed. Listener bias is a reasonable hypothesis.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

There was a recent-ish thread at prosoundweb from one of Lavry's (or was it Aldrich?) associates (I believe) on CD players and jitter. I wish I could find it. Anyway, the guy had been involved in a lab study that tested several CD players in all price ranges -- from mid-80s models to new ones. Conclusion: unless there is something seriously defective, not a single player, not even the oldest and cheapest, exhibited any jitter output errors. Not a one.

Prosoundweb forums have been down, but I know it's in there somewhere.

[Andreas]

Andreas, I'm a scientist too. 'Theory' gets too brutalized by the public -- 'evolution, it's just a *theory* -- for me not to call you on that.

I agree with you here. The debate "evolution theory versus intelligent design" is almost not present in Germany, therefore I am not too sensitive about the informal use of the word theory. I would be if I lived in the US.

[krabapple]

Well, now you at least know better where I'm coming from, and I you.

Sadly, much that is anti-scientific about audiophile culture also seems to emanate from my country, though Britain and Italy are also part of that axis of foolishness.