Eno reissue news: someome explain this to me, please

Postby **lukpac** » Fri May 21, 2004 3:36 pm

Well, of course, methods change. A lot of stuff that used to be done with tape an scissors is now done on a computer, so a lot of the lines blur. And some albums have tweaks like that while others don't.

krabapple · Postby **krabapple** » Fri May 21, 2004 4:13 pm

Rspaight wrote:
(that would only be caputred digitally using a direct feed from a turntable output)

Hence my brilliant business plan. I could call it RK Records (for the Rice Krispies background noise).

By the way, are these Eno records any good? I'm only familiar with his ambient stuff.

Ryan

Good god, yes. In particular , "Another Green World' is a flat-out classic AFAIC...a sort of musical kaleidoscope.Collaborators on it include Robert Fripp (who turns in one of his best-ever solos on 'St Elmo's Fire') , Phil Collins (back when he could play) and Percy Jones of Brand X.

Before & After Science is similar thogh marginally less good. But everything Eno did in the 70's is worth owning., AFAIC.

krabapple · Postby **krabapple** » Fri May 21, 2004 4:22 pm

lukpac wrote:
krabapple wrote:But time and again vinylphiles claim that the old CDs did *not* replicate that sound..even though soem of those CDs seem to ahve been straight digital transfers. So, either the digital trasnfer process was imperfect, or LP/turntable/stylus systems add something to the sound (that would only be caputred digitally using a direct feed from a turntable output).

Well, I think it could be a number of things:

1) We have no way of knowing if those were "flat transfers" or not. I've heard stories of lots of added top end to CDs, mainly because it could finally be done. That didn't mean it had to sound good, though.

Indeed, I am assuming for the purposes of the argument above that at least some of the 80's CDs were flat digital copies of analog tapes...as Hoffman et al have claimed. It is specifically those that I was specualting about. I agree that we don't really know, though SH and others in the mastering community, in at least some cases, might.

2) Some CDs could actually use the original "flat" masters, or copies thereof, which simply may not sound that good flat. Just because something is from a copy tape doesn't necessarily mean EQ was added.

Again, the test case would be something that vinylphiles claim soudns great on LP, crap on CD, but which was demonstrably released on CD as a flat transfer of the LP production master.

3) Even if the copy tape had EQ on it, it didn't necessarily sound good in other respects.

Again, I'm talking about a case such as I have described. Only then would the two alternative explanations I offered suffice.

4) The LP (at least the "good" one that was the basis of comparison) may not have come from the same generation of tape that the CD did. The LP may have been cut from a first generation tape (see above), while the CD was cut from the production master (ie, a bad one), or even a copy of said production tape.

Again, I'm talking about a case where they did come from the same tape.

5) Some "vinylphiles" are deaf.

Or, simply biased. It will be interesting to see, *assuming * that the Eno remasters are truly flat transfers of the LP production tapes, how Fremer et al thing they sound compared to
vinyl made from the same tapes (to make it truly fair it'd have to be new vinyl...not 70's vintage, since the tapes could have deteriorated a bit since then).

I think there's a lot of assumptions on both sides of the argument that simply don't hold up. I think if you were to go in a time machine and find out exactly what was being done back then, a lot of the assumptions ("all flat transfers", "from crappy copy tape", etc) would be proven as untrue.

I'm arguing about a very specific case....which admittedly may not even exist (though a certain mastering engineer seems to believe it does)

Patrick M · Postby **Patrick M** » Fri May 21, 2004 4:48 pm

krabapple wrote:Collaborators on it include Robert Fripp (who turns in one of his best-ever solos on 'St Elmo's Fire') , Phil Collins (back when he could play) and Percy Jones of Brand X.

From the soundtrack to the classic "Brat Pack" film of the same name?

Rspaight · Postby **Rspaight** » Fri May 21, 2004 5:45 pm

Good god, yes. In particular , "Another Green World' is a flat-out classic AFAIC...a sort of musical kaleidoscope.Collaborators on it include Robert Fripp (who turns in one of his best-ever solos on 'St Elmo's Fire') , Phil Collins (back when he could play) and Percy Jones of Brand X.

Before & After Science is similar thogh marginally less good. But everything Eno did in the 70's is worth owning., AFAIC.

Sounds fun. I might check a couple of these out.

From the soundtrack to the classic "Brat Pack" film of the same name?

A worthy effort, though everyone knows that the superior John Paar track is "Naughty Naughty."

Ryan

Patrick M · Postby **Patrick M** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:02 pm

krabapple wrote:Collaborators on it include Robert Fripp (who turns in one of his best-ever solos on 'St Elmo's Fire') , Phil Collins (back when he could play) and Percy Jones of Brand X.

Rspaight · Postby **Rspaight** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:52 pm

Dig the sideburns!

Ryan

krabapple · Postby **krabapple** » Sat May 22, 2004 12:59 am

Patrick M wrote:
krabapple wrote:Collaborators on it include Robert Fripp (who turns in one of his best-ever solos on 'St Elmo's Fire') , Phil Collins (back when he could play) and Percy Jones of Brand X.

From the soundtrack to the classic "Brat Pack" film of the same name?

Not in 1975, no.

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:26 pm

Anybody picked these up yet?

Rspaight · Postby **Rspaight** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:38 pm

I saw 'em in BB the other day, but haven't bought any (yet). I've heard there was an intro left off of AGW that they need to fix, else I probably would have picked that up.

http://music.hyperreal.org/artists/brian_eno/news.html

Ryan

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:49 am

They looked pretty mercenary to me. Cheap looking digipaks, slightly blurry artwork. LP copy tapes! Yes! Quality is assured.

What ever happened to releases with liner notes and bonus tracks? Or is that too mid-nineties and tape-researchy for our new, authentic era?

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:53 am

And BTW, nobody's managed to explain how the AGW mixup occured. Virgin's explanation ("DDP" error or somesuch) sounds fabricated by some PR guy. How does a line of music get seamlessly deleted?

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:00 pm

I finally got my AGW replacement, so I set about listening to it. It really doesn't sound much different than the old issue. EQ is pretty much the same, although it sounds as if there's slightly less hiss. I would've preferred it to be less toppy, but that probably would have involved using something that wasn't a copy tape.

MK · Postby MK » Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:44 pm

I borrowed the remaster of Another Green World from someone, and after a week of comparisons, it feels too disappointing. I used to assume the old CD was probably a so-so sounding version of the album, and that a great mastering or proper mastering if it was done wrong would blow the old CD away. I don't have or listen to the vinyl version so this was complete speculation.

Having compared the two, it doesn't feel like it would be worth upgrading to. Maybe the SACD would be a lot better. I wish I knew if it was just the mastering or the use of the Lp master that's behind my disappointment. I really don't enjoy the new remaster in any way more than I would the old CD. Maybe a little crisper or brighter, but the old CD doesn't feel like it's too dull or muddy, not even a tiny bit. I never noticed any real hiss differences with either. The remaster may be a touch less but not enough to really notice and not enough to suggest a much better source.

Was the old CD mastered from a similar source? Whatever, I wish they got Doug Sax or a Sony engineer to do this for SACD.