I figure I'm not jumping the gun that much.
Anybody HEARD the thing yet?
That's what sucks about archive reissues, really...nobody ever seems to care to leak 'em early (Let It Be Naked might be an exception). I mean, people definitely have the thing already.
Deluxe Tommy comments
Deluxe Tommy comments
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"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911
"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911
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Rspaight
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Me either. Tomorrow is gonna kill me. Tommy, the Rhino punk box, Homicide Season Three, Sopranos Season Four, the Looney Tunes box...
Some of that is going to have to get deferred (Christmas money...), but I'll definitely be picking up Tommy.
Ryan
PS - There's been some discussion of it over at SH, with the 5.1 mix getting praise and the stereo mastering getting dissed (comparing with the MFSL CD)...
Some of that is going to have to get deferred (Christmas money...), but I'll definitely be picking up Tommy.
Ryan
PS - There's been some discussion of it over at SH, with the 5.1 mix getting praise and the stereo mastering getting dissed (comparing with the MFSL CD)...
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney
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Rspaight
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Well, I just picked this up at lunch. Kinda disappointed that they didn't choose to replicate the tri-fold sleeve with the digipack. Oh, well. Further notes after I listen to it (hopefully) tonight.
Semi-humorous note: Best Buy had 'em filed under SACD but not under CD, and only had out a few copies versus the squillions they had for the Who's Next DE. Oops.
Ryan
Semi-humorous note: Best Buy had 'em filed under SACD but not under CD, and only had out a few copies versus the squillions they had for the Who's Next DE. Oops.
Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney
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lukpac
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I'm also quite surprised that the tri-fold cover isn't replicated *anywhere*. Strange.
Also strange that the lyrics are nowhere to be found. WTF? There's nothing from the original booklet, as far as I can see.
Other than that, though, the packaging is really nice. A *lot* of photos of the sessions, which is neat. I wish we had more of that type of thing.
As far as the outtakes go, I haven't yet heard any NR artifacts, persay, but the overall sound is a bit lifeless, for lack of a better term. It doesn't sound *bad*, but it doesn't "breathe" like it should. The mixes make the songs *sound* like outtakes. Whereas the released mixes of Young Man Blues and Dogs Part 2 had some reverb and sounded "produced", these mixes sound like (more or less) straight mixes from the multis.
The demos still have some hiss, although they seem to have that same "uneasy quality".
Amazing Journey is similar to the version on bootleg, but it's quite different as well. It's obviously an underdub of some sort - all of the sound effects present on bootleg are missing here. In addition, it fades out/stops at 3:41, whereas the bootleg goes on for over 7 and a half minutes. It's unclear if the underdub take actually went that long, though, as it seems likely that earlier portions of the underdub were simply replayed for the "finished" version.
The Christmas demo would seem to be the same one that's on Another Scoop, only this time in wide stereo (on AS one track was centered and the other was treated with ADT to both channels).
On both Christmas and Amazing Journey (and Pinball Wizard) there seems to be some echo added to keep it from seeming like the vocal is stuck in one channel. That is, if the vocal is in the left channel, there's some echo in the right channel of everything that's in the left channel. The bootleg "mixes" seemed to be straight dubs of the original work tapes.
I'll get to the original album later. Quick note - I'm listening to the front two channels of the MC mix at the moment, and I have one word - DRY. Perhaps the echo is in the rears or something, but just listening to the fronts sounds just like the outtakes - like you're listening to a rough mix, rather than a finished production.
Also strange that the lyrics are nowhere to be found. WTF? There's nothing from the original booklet, as far as I can see.
Other than that, though, the packaging is really nice. A *lot* of photos of the sessions, which is neat. I wish we had more of that type of thing.
As far as the outtakes go, I haven't yet heard any NR artifacts, persay, but the overall sound is a bit lifeless, for lack of a better term. It doesn't sound *bad*, but it doesn't "breathe" like it should. The mixes make the songs *sound* like outtakes. Whereas the released mixes of Young Man Blues and Dogs Part 2 had some reverb and sounded "produced", these mixes sound like (more or less) straight mixes from the multis.
The demos still have some hiss, although they seem to have that same "uneasy quality".
Amazing Journey is similar to the version on bootleg, but it's quite different as well. It's obviously an underdub of some sort - all of the sound effects present on bootleg are missing here. In addition, it fades out/stops at 3:41, whereas the bootleg goes on for over 7 and a half minutes. It's unclear if the underdub take actually went that long, though, as it seems likely that earlier portions of the underdub were simply replayed for the "finished" version.
The Christmas demo would seem to be the same one that's on Another Scoop, only this time in wide stereo (on AS one track was centered and the other was treated with ADT to both channels).
On both Christmas and Amazing Journey (and Pinball Wizard) there seems to be some echo added to keep it from seeming like the vocal is stuck in one channel. That is, if the vocal is in the left channel, there's some echo in the right channel of everything that's in the left channel. The bootleg "mixes" seemed to be straight dubs of the original work tapes.
I'll get to the original album later. Quick note - I'm listening to the front two channels of the MC mix at the moment, and I have one word - DRY. Perhaps the echo is in the rears or something, but just listening to the fronts sounds just like the outtakes - like you're listening to a rough mix, rather than a finished production.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
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lukpac
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Some more comments, this time on disc 1...:
The presentation of the stereo mix compared to the MFSL is kind of like the differences between the WN:DE and the Hoffman CD, only reversed. That is, the MFSL is a bit "recessed" in the vocals (upper midrange?), while the DE is more forward. I hesitate to say "brighter" (the 1993 MCA had more of the high end boosted, for instance), but there's a bit more "bite" on the acoustic guitars, for example. I'd say it's good, although I'll have to listen some more to determine if I like it better than the MFSL or not.
The noise reduction story is the same as with Who's Next - the main parts of most (all?) songs seem to have *no* NR, while fade outs especially have it, as does the left channel of the intro of Eyesight, interestingly enough. It seems Astley has gone from "all hiss is bad" to "hiss is ok as long as it fades out with the music." I saw a comment that seemed to imply that disc 1 was filled with NR, but a quick listen to just about every track reveals just as much hiss as the MFSL.
If Astley had just laid off the NR in those quiet bits, I probably wouldn't have anything to complain about. It's a shame he feels the need to do that.
The presentation of the stereo mix compared to the MFSL is kind of like the differences between the WN:DE and the Hoffman CD, only reversed. That is, the MFSL is a bit "recessed" in the vocals (upper midrange?), while the DE is more forward. I hesitate to say "brighter" (the 1993 MCA had more of the high end boosted, for instance), but there's a bit more "bite" on the acoustic guitars, for example. I'd say it's good, although I'll have to listen some more to determine if I like it better than the MFSL or not.
The noise reduction story is the same as with Who's Next - the main parts of most (all?) songs seem to have *no* NR, while fade outs especially have it, as does the left channel of the intro of Eyesight, interestingly enough. It seems Astley has gone from "all hiss is bad" to "hiss is ok as long as it fades out with the music." I saw a comment that seemed to imply that disc 1 was filled with NR, but a quick listen to just about every track reveals just as much hiss as the MFSL.
If Astley had just laid off the NR in those quiet bits, I probably wouldn't have anything to complain about. It's a shame he feels the need to do that.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
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Rspaight
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I just got done listening to the whole original album in 5.1.
Holy shit.
This is some weird, wacky, splendid stuff, IMHO. There's GOBS of separation. Yes, I know, Ryan, you idiot, that's the whole point of multichannel, but it's still pretty astonishing to hear the elements pulled apart like this. The drums are almost never in the "traditional" stereo-spread -- they're left-center, right-center or hard-center, depending on the song. This makes Keith sound more like a player and less like a "rhythm track," which is a good choice in his case.
An interesting choice is that most of the lead vocals come from all directions (including the center, I think, but maybe just the four corners), which has the effect of pulling them out into the middle of the room. You get the illusion of the singer standing and singing in front of the band. Seems obvious, but it really works.
Another thing -- this is a *dynamic* mix. "Underture" in particular ebbs and flows very nicely. You can readily tell when Keith's playing *hard* and when he's not. It's quite dramatic.
Speaking of which, the rears are used "dramatically" a couple of times, and it works well.
Finally, the comments in ICE were spot on -- the drums and bass are much more present than in the original mix. This gives the somewhat weedy sound of the album some balls, and it's better for it. If this was the only version available, I'd be miffed, but it's a heck of an alternative mix. I think Pete did well.
Luke -- yes, I think a lot of the echo went to the back (and the center for many vocals). I didn't realize the lyrics were missing until you just pointed it out. Mondo bizarro. I really like the photos in the booklet, though. If the choice was lyrics or photos, they made the right one.
On to Disc Two...
Ryan
Holy shit.
This is some weird, wacky, splendid stuff, IMHO. There's GOBS of separation. Yes, I know, Ryan, you idiot, that's the whole point of multichannel, but it's still pretty astonishing to hear the elements pulled apart like this. The drums are almost never in the "traditional" stereo-spread -- they're left-center, right-center or hard-center, depending on the song. This makes Keith sound more like a player and less like a "rhythm track," which is a good choice in his case.
An interesting choice is that most of the lead vocals come from all directions (including the center, I think, but maybe just the four corners), which has the effect of pulling them out into the middle of the room. You get the illusion of the singer standing and singing in front of the band. Seems obvious, but it really works.
Another thing -- this is a *dynamic* mix. "Underture" in particular ebbs and flows very nicely. You can readily tell when Keith's playing *hard* and when he's not. It's quite dramatic.
Speaking of which, the rears are used "dramatically" a couple of times, and it works well.
Finally, the comments in ICE were spot on -- the drums and bass are much more present than in the original mix. This gives the somewhat weedy sound of the album some balls, and it's better for it. If this was the only version available, I'd be miffed, but it's a heck of an alternative mix. I think Pete did well.
Luke -- yes, I think a lot of the echo went to the back (and the center for many vocals). I didn't realize the lyrics were missing until you just pointed it out. Mondo bizarro. I really like the photos in the booklet, though. If the choice was lyrics or photos, they made the right one.
On to Disc Two...
Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney
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Rspaight
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Whereas the released mixes of Young Man Blues and Dogs Part 2 had some reverb and sounded "produced", these mixes sound like (more or less) straight mixes from the multis.
While I'm hearing the same thing you are with these tracks, I kind of like the effect. But then I'm a fan of a raw, live-in-the-studio sound, which these certainly are.
I was listening in 5.1, too, which might make a difference.
Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney
In true Astley fashion it appears that he used a different vocal track on Cousin Kevin Model Child. I'm too lazy to dig out the worst reissue of all time (Odds and Sods) to comapre but it's definately different...
Chris
Chris
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lukpac
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Rspaight wrote:While I'm hearing the same thing you are with these tracks, I kind of like the effect. But then I'm a fan of a raw, live-in-the-studio sound, which these certainly are.
Have you heard the original mixes of them? The "in the studio" sound is certainly *interesting*, but in terms of overall feel it's a lot more boring IMO. The new mix (of YMB) just kind of "lies there". It's like they are practicing in your basement and all have their amps turned down - the guitar in particular is *way* too low on the new mix.
Yeah, if there's one thing those new mixes need it's "atmosphere".
BTW, in terms of the MC mixes go, most of the tracks I sampled had *no* vocals in either of the fronts. I know Eyesight did, FWIW (one vocal track per channel).
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
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lukpac
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Chris M wrote:In true Astley fashion it appears that he used a different vocal track on Cousin Kevin Model Child. I'm too lazy to dig out the worst reissue of all time (Odds and Sods) to comapre but it's definately different...
As far as I can tell the new one is double-tracked, while the old one was single-tracked.
Fine by me - as long as both versions are available, it's great to have "something else".
Now, if only the original mix of YMB was available...
And two notes on YMB - 1) where was the multi for this version when O&S was put out? and 2) the mix of the alt take on O&S is much closer to the feel of the original mix than the new mix of the "correct" take.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
Agreed about the new mix of THTTB YMB. Keith is WAY up in the mix and the guitars are too low IMO. I just checked and Disc 2 is less than 50 min. It's a shame they didn't add the alt vocal Eyesight to the Blind or a speed corrected version of the alt YMB from O&S. I was also dissapointed that the liner notes didn't have more recording session info. The session photos are a nice touch and the outtakes are a fun listen. If disc 2 was a new boot we would be shitting ourselves....
Chris
Chris
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Rspaight
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lukpac wrote:Have you heard the original mixes of them? The "in the studio" sound is certainly *interesting*, but in terms of overall feel it's a lot more boring IMO. The new mix (of YMB) just kind of "lies there". It's like they are practicing in your basement and all have their amps turned down - the guitar in particular is *way* too low on the new mix.
I haven't heard YMB (only whatever the hell is on the new O&S), but I've heard Dogs2 on Two's Missing. I think the 5.1 is what did it for me, because the drums on that track are freakin' EVERYWHERE. Still haven't listened to anything in stereo yet.
BTW, in terms of the MC mixes go, most of the tracks I sampled had *no* vocals in either of the fronts. I know Eyesight did, FWIW (one vocal track per channel).
Hmmmm, so maybe it's the center and rears. If I felt like playing with cables, I could say for sure, but it's much too late for that sort of silliness. (And besides, I'm taping something for the mother-in-law, so the system is otherwise occupied...)
Ryan
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lukpac
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This is a far from ideal transfer, but it should at least give you a feel of the original mix...
Young Man Blues
I'd have to re-listen to Dogs Pt. 2, but going from memory, most of my comments still hold.
Young Man Blues
I'd have to re-listen to Dogs Pt. 2, but going from memory, most of my comments still hold.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
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Rspaight
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Yup, can't disagree with you, after listening to the CD stereo and that MP3. The reverb on the original is much better. And the drums on the new one are too high.
I wish I could send you an MP3 of the 5.1 track. Though it suffers from the same problems, it's a hoot.
I do like the instrumental "Christmas" take. That's fun.
Ryan
I wish I could send you an MP3 of the 5.1 track. Though it suffers from the same problems, it's a hoot.
I do like the instrumental "Christmas" take. That's fun.
Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney