Music Hall MMF-5 Turntable (and Record Cleaners)

Want to review the latest CD reissue? Or a 30 year old LP you just picked up? Discuss it all here.
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Rspaight
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Music Hall MMF-5 Turntable (and Record Cleaners)

Postby Rspaight » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:59 pm

Image

I ain't no vinyl expert.

That's not a clever double-negative trick, either. I was one of those who jumped onto the CD bandwagon, dazzled by high-tech coolness and sheer snob appeal back in the early days. "Yeah, it's a cool album, but I'm waiting for it on CD." Countless records were traded in for pennies on the dollar for shiny CDs. I have owned a single turntable for the last nineteen years, a plastic direct-drive JVC that came as part of a rack system from a department store, and it was hardly used for last decade.

I started playing around with vinyl a bit in the last year or so, prodded on by the rantings at the Hoffman board and elsewhere. I shrugged. Sure, records were cool, but I just didn't get the hyperbole.

Then I did the Dylan shootouts on this site a little while ago. Under such intent listening conditions, I could hear some potential locked away in there, that glorious "euphonic distortion" as Thom calls it. My crappy turntable was the weak link.

So when the time came around for my annual toy purchase, I decided I didn't really need a Pocket PC after all, and plunked down some bucks for this black beauty.

It was, at first, a disaster.

Got it home, set it up. Big double-plinth, with the motor isolated from the arm. Nifty. Built-in level. Neato. First I strapped the belt onto the motor. Then, I slipped the heavy glass platter over the threaded spindle (to accomodate the included record clamp). Set the tracking weight. Dangled the little dangly anti-skate thing. Slapped on a record and prepared to experience audio nirvana.

The standard pre-mounted Goldring 1012GX cartridge hit the record and bounced around like a drunken cheerleader. I lunged to retrieve it and checked out the situation. The stylus, on close examination, was apparently pushed up into the cartridge body. Harumph.

I went back to the store, goofed up stylus in hand. They didn't have another MMF-5 in stock, but gave me the stylus off the floor demo, which had obviously never been used. (The tonearm was still strapped to the rest, and the counterweight had been thrown on backwards. There was a thick layer of dust on it. Sigh.)

I motored back home, ran to the turntable, and went to install the new stylus. It wouldn't go on. Just when I started to think I was hopelessly inept, I realized that there was a little plastic peg on the stylus that slotted into a matching hole in the cart. Unfortunately, the smashed stylus had left its peg in the hole, like a key broken off in a lock. Crap!

I was done messing with this jinxed example. I called the dealer, they ordered a new table, and I waited.

The new one came in last night. Did the exchange and unpacked it -- this one was fine. Did the whole setup ritual again (went much faster this time). Put on a record and waited for sonic nirvana.

Well, maybe not nirvana, but damn nice all the same. Through my all-analog Yamaha stereo receiver and NHT SB3 speakers, things right out of the box (they say these analog gadgets need to "break in" -- hmmm) sounded both lively and life-like, even on the records I used to make sure everything was set up correctly. An 80s stock reissue of Led Zeppelin II boomed, thumped and wailed convincingly. Very little noise, apart from what was on the record itself. All that double-plinth and glass platter anti-vibration voodoo was apparently paying dividends.

So I then went for the jugular. I recently paid too much on eBay for a very nice Japanese Beatles LP box (the Japanese equivalent of the British "BC13" box). These late-70s-vintage records and sleeves look untouched by human hands, although the box itself is pretty beat-up. I put on Abbey Road. Compared it to the stock CD.

Yowsa! Compared to this LP, the CD sounded cramped and boxed-in. The CD was a bit clearer, but the LP was ridiculously more present and alive. There's a bit in "Come Together" where Paul's bass sustains under John's voice ("hold you in his arms yeah you can feel his disease") and then abruptly stops. On the CD, it was just a hum. On the album, it throbbed. Cool! (Throbbing is good.)

I then pulled out an old unremarkable WB/Bearsville pressing of Todd Rundgren's Something/Anything. This was one of the records that had so underwhelmed me on my old turntable -- the Rhino CD was easily better. Now, though, the LP more than holds its own with a big, full, detailed sound.

I love this thing. If you've got a good number of LPs sitting around and not much to play them on, you can't do much better for under $500. Plus, you can enjoy that old snob appeal all over again. "Yeah, it's a cool album, but I'm waiting for it on LP."

Ryan
Last edited by Rspaight on Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby lukpac » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:29 pm

There's no way you could mount the cartridge from your old unit on there, is there? I'd be curious to know how much of the improvement was based on the cartridge, and how much was based on the turntable itself.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby seth » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:35 pm

I have the MMF-7. It's true that there is a break in period for the cartridge, and you'll notice an improvement
supposedly after about 40 or 50 hours (!) of play time. (or is it just the power of suggestion.....?) I did not have the problem you had,
fortunately, but when I received the unit it turned out the dust cover had a big crack in it. This was due to the fact
that the under-platter was rolling around loose in the box, which was quite disconcerting. Red Trumpet got a
replacement for me, though it took about 6 months due to Music Hall's importing schedule. The MMF-7 has a different cartridge
from the 5, and has an outboard motor with an exposed belt that goes around the outside of the platter.
One thing I do not look forward to is eventually replacing the cartridge (I don't think this one has a replaceable stylus).
In fact, one thing that helped sell me on the unit was the fact that it came with a decent cartridge pre-
mounted. I assume it will last a while (how will I know when it's shot) although I mostly use it to play the scratchy
foreign Beatles 45rpm picture sleeve pressings I've been collecting.

Seth

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Postby seth » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:38 pm

I should clarify that the replacement was just of the dust cover, not the whole TT. And I think the sound
improvement is due in large part to the TT itself, not just the cartridge. (My previous TT was a B&O with tangential
tracking that got worn out and is no longer supported by B&O, nor are the special cartridges made anymore.)

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Postby Patrick M » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:40 pm

Did you buy this locally?

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Postby Rspaight » Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:28 pm

Luke: The old JVC is a P-mount and the Music Hall is a standard mount, so a swap isn't doable. From the looks of the cart on the JVC, it's an Audio-Technica of some sort (at least that's what the stylus replacements were labeled for). I'm guessing that the sound quality improvements I'm hearing are largely due to the cart, and the lower noise floor due to the isolation features of the table, but again, I'm no analog guru.

Seth: The MMF-7 has an MC cartridge, right? In that case, you're right, you generally can't replace styli on those. On interesting thing about the Goldring MM cart on mine is that you can essentially upgrade the 1012 to a 1022 or 1042 by getting the appropriate replacement stylus, since I think that's the only real difference among them. (The 1012 stylus is about $160. Ulp!)

Patrick: Yes, at Ovation. The condition of the floor demo suggests they don't deal with them much, but I'm glad I went the route I did as the replacement process was much easier than it would have been via mail order. (Plus it was on sale for $449, cheaper than anywhere on the Web.) I may not be able to get your Dylan albums back to you tomorrow, as I want to listen to them on this new beast. I will have some goodies for you, though.

Ryan
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Postby lukpac » Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:44 pm

Rspaight wrote:Luke: The old JVC is a P-mount and the Music Hall is a standard mount, so a swap isn't doable.


Not without some help;)

Image

This, by the way, is my cartridge. I'm pretty happy with it. Funny that I found this link (I wasn't even looking for it), as lately I haven't seen them around much for some reason. AT has removed mention of it from their site.

From the looks of the cart on the JVC, it's an Audio-Technica of some sort (at least that's what the stylus replacements were labeled for). I'm guessing that the sound quality improvements I'm hearing are largely due to the cart, and the lower noise floor due to the isolation features of the table, but again, I'm no analog guru.


Question - the AT styli that I've seen have an indication of what type of diamond they have. For instance, a spheical stylus will have a circle on it. My linear contact has, well...the picture comes to a point on the top, but is rounded on the bottom. Like a triangle that has one side bent in a arc.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Rspaight » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:07 pm

That looks a lot like my old one, except mine's a P-mount. The stylus assembly looks identical, 'cept mine's white (I've had blue ones in the past).

I'm looking at it now, and it has a small solid circle on the bottom between "Audio-Technica" and "JAPAN." It also has a small raised dot at the very front on the left side (looking at it from the bottom). So sounds like a spherical. I'd scan it, but I'm formatting a hard drive as I type this so my machine is running sloooooow.

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

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Postby lukpac » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:46 pm

Rspaight wrote:That looks a lot like my old one, except mine's a P-mount. The stylus assembly looks identical, 'cept mine's white (I've had blue ones in the past).


The one in the picture is a P-mount, actually. It just has a standard adaptor with it, which is what I was pointing out...

My old conical stylus is white too - quite possibly the same one.

I'm looking at it now, and it has a small solid circle on the bottom between "Audio-Technica" and "JAPAN." It also has a small raised dot at the very front on the left side (looking at it from the bottom). So sounds like a spherical. I'd scan it, but I'm formatting a hard drive as I type this so my machine is running sloooooow.


Sounds just like mine. Have any use for that old cart? :wink:
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Rspaight » Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:06 pm

lukpac wrote:The one in the picture is a P-mount, actually. It just has a standard adaptor with it, which is what I was pointing out...


Oh, duh. Forgive my density. Of course that's what it is.

All the same, though, I'm not really keen to "experiment" with the new baby quite yet...

lukpac wrote:Sounds just like mine. Have any use for that old cart? :wink:


Actually, I was thinking about deploying the old table in the computer room for needle-drop duty, but hearing how much nicer the new one is, I dunno.

Hard drive's done, so here's my cart:

Image

Ryan
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Postby lukpac » Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:36 pm

Rspaight wrote:Actually, I was thinking about deploying the old table in the computer room for needle-drop duty, but hearing how much nicer the new one is, I dunno.

Hard drive's done, so here's my cart:


Looks just like my old one, although a lot of those AT's look identical. When we first got this the stylus was black, FWIW.

I like using my conical for certain situations, but the cantilever is actually bent a little.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby thomh » Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:09 am

Uh-oh! The next posts we get from Ryan now are going to have topics like:

"Why I love vinyl."
"What's on my turntable tonight."
"Help! My vinyl samples have put my CDs to shame."
"PCM gives me a headache!"

:wink:
Thom

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Postby Rspaight » Thu Oct 23, 2003 8:01 am

Yes, that's right. "I can't stand listening to CDs anymore. The music's all chopped up into little pieces! Argh! Where's my $40 200g pressing of Seals and Crofts?"

Nah, I still like my CDs just fine, as you'll soon see in the Dylan shootout grand finale I'll be posting soon. This is a fun alternative, though.

So, should I paint the edges of my LPs with a green pen? :)

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

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Postby seth » Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:00 pm

No green pen, but do you have a VPI record cleaning machine? I decided not to get one because:
1. The Discwasher is good enough
2. The VPI machine is expensive
3. It's big, and I live in a small apartment
4. It sounds like a freaking 747! (or at least an unmuffled vacuum cleaner, which is essentially what it is.

Seth

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Postby Rspaight » Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:33 pm

No, just an old Discwasher at the moment. I'll burn in Audiophile Hell for that, but there you go. I'm not sure I can justify that sort of expense. Maybe if I get a lot of money I don't know what else to do with.

I don't suppose I can just use my Dustbuster, huh? :)

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney