Music Hall MMF-5 Turntable (and Record Cleaners)

Want to review the latest CD reissue? Or a 30 year old LP you just picked up? Discuss it all here.
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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:06 pm

seth wrote:No green pen, but do you have a VPI record cleaning machine? I decided not to get one because:
1. The Discwasher is good enough


Gotta jump on this...

No, it isn't :wink:

All things like Discwasher do are get rid of surface dust and dirt. They don't touch the stuff down deep in the grooves, which is more often that not what actually causes problems.

I'll put it this way - have you ever played a record wet and thought "man, that sounds *so* much better"? And after it dried it sounded like shit again? Well, a VPI or Nitty Gritty will make it sound like it did wet all the time.

Expensive? Yeah. But worth it if you're serious about vinyl.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Patrick M
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Postby Patrick M » Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:42 pm

Luke, did you buy a record cleaner? Did you get a job or something?

Ryan, you could buy a Disc Doctor kit and use it by hand until you can buy a vaccum machine. I bought the cheapo Audio Advisor (built by Nitty Gritty) thing about 8 years ago. It was pretty reasonable.

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Postby lukpac » Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:06 am

Patrick M wrote:Luke, did you buy a record cleaner?


I've had one for most of this year, actually.

Did you get a job or something?


Yes, but it sucks.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Rspaight » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:12 am

Ryan, you could buy a Disc Doctor kit and use it by hand until you can buy a vaccum machine. I bought the cheapo Audio Advisor (built by Nitty Gritty) thing about 8 years ago. It was pretty reasonable.


I think they sell Nitty Gritty stuff at Pop's Resale. I've been meaning to go there anyway on a vinyl-hunting run, so I'll check it out. (I assume you're well aware of Pop's.)

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

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Patrick M
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Postby Patrick M » Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:29 pm

Pop's is a complete and total dump. DON'T BUY ANYTHING THERE. :shock:

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Postby Rspaight » Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:38 pm

I'll take that as a "yes." :)

Well, it is sort of a "With all this shit, there's got to be a pony in here somewhere" situation, but I have found a *few* decent things there. Nat used them a lot as a source for props for 40s/50s period piece plays.

But yeah, I wouldn't touch the majority of things there with a twenty-foot pole. I've since discovered that the machine you're talking about is an Audio Advisor exclusive (and is currently backordered), so it's a moot point, anyway...

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

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Postby Rspaight » Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:36 pm

I just stumbled on this little guy for $150:

http://www.kabusa.com/ev1.htm

Now, that's a price I can live with, assuming the thing works. It gets good notices on SH.tv. Whaddya think?

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

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Postby lukpac » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:17 pm

Looks fine, but I think the cheapest NG (with vacuum) is $200. IMO the extra $50 would be worth it.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby seth » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:24 pm

My hesitance in getting a record cleaner is not really the money (though that is a factor) or its effectiveness,
but rather the space it would take up in my apartment (I don't have a basement or a garage or a spare room),
and the VERY LOUD noise it makes. Who wants to literally run a vacuum cleaner all the time when you want to hear
music? If family members are mad at you for buying too many CDs or bidding on too many records on eBay,
that noise and mess could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

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Postby lukpac » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:14 pm

Well, my personal way of doing things is to clean records when I first get them, and when I want to transfer them to CD. Beyond that, I don't bother cleaning them. The few stray bits of dust from the air and/or the sleeve aren't that important to me.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Patrick M » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:15 pm

With the Disc Doctor system, supposedly you really only need to clean the records once, then just do routine dust pickup with a carbon fiber brush.

Ryan, I seriously wouldn't buy a machine from Pop's. a) because the machines I've seen there are old, used, and look like someone's else's problem and b) because the guy who owns it is an opinionated, loquacious (GRE word) buffoon.

Aren't the AA machines less than $200?

Luke, does your machine have a drain plug on the bottom? If so, have you ever actually seen any fluid come out of it? I've been surprised that I've never seen a drop emerge from that drain.

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Postby Rspaight » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:28 pm

Oh, I'd never buy *any* sort of equipment used from Pop's. The reason they're good for props is because props don't need to *work.*

The only reason I mentioned them was because the NG site listed them as a dealer for new stuff, but apparently they only carry sleeves and stuff like that.

(I *did* pick up a reasonably decent "Beatles Again" version of Hey Jude for six bucks there tonight. It plays OK, to my ignorant eyes and ears it's a VG+ record with a VG sleeve.)

The AA "Record Doctor" machine is $199, which is what I'll probably end up getting once it's back in stock. The NG 1.0 is $239 most places, and as far as I can tell the only difference between it and the AA thing is that the NG 1.0 has little compartments for the brush and fluid, which ain't worth $40.

While I was researching these things, I saw several comments that very little if any fluid actually makes it out of the plug.

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney

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Postby lukpac » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:47 pm

Patrick M wrote:Luke, does your machine have a drain plug on the bottom?


Yes.

If so, have you ever actually seen any fluid come out of it? I've been surprised that I've never seen a drop emerge from that drain.


I've never even looked. Although I wouldn't be surprised if something came out, as I tend to put a lot of liquid on records (cleaner plus distilled water).

Mr. Hunte claims he's never seen any liquid come out of the plug.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Rspaight » Sun Nov 09, 2003 12:33 pm

I got the Audio Advisor thing and it came in a couple of days ago. Seems to work as advertised. Looks like some sort of sick sex toy, though.

I also got a Shure tracking force gauge while I was at it, so I'm amassing an impressive-looking collection of analog gear. Contrary to reviews I've read, the markings on the Music Hall counterweight were actually pretty close (just a tenth or so off on the light side).

Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney