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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:40 pm 
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Jeff T. wrote:
I think Pete makes less money on anything that includes Polydor/Universal Who catalog tiles. A Quadrophenia box set, or a double. He is better off mixing a live 73 show (or the full 1971), and issuing it on his own under a different deal.


If a) that was true and b) Pete cared about money that much, it makes no sense than the box was comprised how it was. It seems possible that band recordings would necessarily be released by Universal, but Pete is free to do as he pleases with his demos. If there was anything where Pete was going to go off and do his own thing, it would have been the demos. Yet, those were put into the box.

Jeff T. wrote:
The Rolling Stones signed a new deal with Universal not long ago. But get this, as you know, they got Bob Clearmountain to do a mixdown of their hot Brussels 73 stint. And did they include it in a new DE GHS box (on Uni?) No fucking way, they did a download under their own logo. It was priced at $5 and $9 respectively. Once you cut out the steel and glass towering inferno from the pie, you stand to make out much better in this new world order. $5 now, is better than $2 later is how I once described it. That is the difference. So Pete now knows how big his market is, has the website cooking pretty good, the fans, the money. Uni is not going to get the best unissued stuff. Just my opinion of course.


1) Who would buy a Goats Head Soup box?

2) You think a $9 download is going to yield more for Pete than a $100+ box?

If Universal isn't getting the live stuff, why did they get Hull? And Young Vic?

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:27 am 
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lukpac wrote:
If a) that was true and b) Pete cared about money that much, it makes no sense than the box was comprised how it was. It seems possible that band recordings would necessarily be released by Universal, but Pete is free to do as he pleases with his demos. If there was anything where Pete was going to go off and do his own thing, it would have been the demos. Yet, those were put into the box.


Of course, he pretty much did that with the Lifehouse box, which means you can create a companion "Director's Cut" of Who's Next by throwing a copy of Who's Next in it.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:36 am 
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lukpac wrote:
If a) that was true and b) Pete cared about money that much, it makes no sense than the box was comprised how it was. It seems possible that band recordings would necessarily be released by Universal, but Pete is free to do as he pleases with his demos. If there was anything where Pete was going to go off and do his own thing, it would have been the demos. Yet, those were put into the box.


I am tired tonight. Forgive me if my typos are even worse than usual. Live Who tapes are the crown jewels of the Pete archives. Universal cannot claim rights to them under the band's contract under normal circumstances. Nether can they claim the demos as contract recordings. The live tapes (arguably) are worth far more on the open market than are the demos.

You state that if Pete were going to go off and do anything (a record contract with Apple, Google, Sony, etc.) it would be for the demos. My opinion is that a Who archival release would be of more interest (providing it is not a very late show featuring Sister Disco, and You Better You Bet as the strongest and best known tunes). Both of our comments are opinion. Mine is based only on where one could mine the most cash. A Universal box set, or a standalone issue? My take is that getting as far away (with your crown jewels) from Universal is the smartest move. The Stones latest move confirms that move to some.

lukpac wrote:
1) Who would buy a Goats Head Soup box?


Who(?) would buy a Goats Head Soup DE is not the point I was trying to make. (I would buy it if it had contained the (unissued) official mixdown of the 1973 live tapes, and a DVD concert film. Some would not, and are convinced that the Stones never made good records after Jones was ejected from the band.) It's the fact that Universal are not getting the live concert material from the Stones archives that I find interesting, and not so surprising.

lukpac wrote:
2) You think a $9 download is going to yield more for Pete than a $100+ box?


Yes, especially if the box is a total "stiff" at retail during the Christmas holidays. But let's say the box is not a stiff, and does just fine for it's limited edition (w/o any concert material). It still then gives Pete the opportunity to exploit his 1973 concert tapes later. He can have his cake and eat it too. I think Universal's take of the action is so severe that (me) calling them a "towering inferno" is not all that far fetched imo. Some artists just call it a simply a "black hole."

lukpac wrote:
If Universal isn't getting the live stuff, why did they get Hull? And Young Vic?


Young Vic (as included in the WN DE) was what seems like 10 years ago. A lot has happened in 10 years. Artists have sat and watched the towering inferno take out sky scrapers, as well as small indies. It's a different world.

My opinion again is that even if Pete wanted to issue UK 73' live Quad era as a stand alone release, he could go with Uni. But why throw it into a box set that one thinks is going to do well with just a partial 5.1, and a cool book, and demos.

I do not think it is just he wants to sit on this stuff forever, the work bores him, and he does not need the money. The Stones sat on Brussels 73 for 29 years, Pink Floyd sat in live UK 74 for 28 years. What's another year of two when your having fun?

But I will say that time and fate have a funny way of catching up with us. And if Pete wanted to slam the door shut and not bother with the hassle of old tapes and distant bad blood, and his time (on earth) came to an abrupt end, there are people that will finish the job for him and be glad to pick up the advances on the projects if there is any interest left by then. This stuff will come out weather he likes it or not.

lukpac wrote:
I don't think it's about money at all. I think it's just Pete's vision, or lack thereof.


Wasn't is posted just recently on that other forum that Pet says that the UK leg of the Quad Tour produced some of the finest performances the band ever did? And that there are recordings?

I think Pete is a very bright guy, and considers this stuff, especially now that the unit as a touring act is near (if not at) it's end. And that he will want to show off his band's better nights, just as the Stones have finally done with their's.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:19 am 
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Jeff T. wrote:
Live Who tapes are the crown jewels of the Pete archives. Universal cannot claim rights to them under the band's contract under normal circumstances.


Why do you say that? As far as I can recall, none of the archival live releases say anything like "Under license from Eel Pie" or "Under license from The Who Group Ltd". I have not seen The Who's contract, but exclusive contracts certainly weren't rare. If Universal doesn't own the rights to release archival live material outright, they likely at least have right of first refusal.

Jeff T. wrote:
You state that if Pete were going to go off and do anything (a record contract with Apple, Google, Sony, etc.) it would be for the demos. My opinion is that a Who archival release would be of more interest (providing it is not a very late show featuring Sister Disco, and You Better You Bet as the strongest and best known tunes). Both of our comments are opinion. Mine is based only on where one could mine the most cash. A Universal box set, or a standalone issue? My take is that getting as far away (with your crown jewels) from Universal is the smartest move. The Stones latest move confirms that move to some.


See above.

Jeff T. wrote:
Who(?) would buy a Goats Head Soup DE is not the point I was trying to make. (I would buy it if it had contained the (unissued) official mixdown of the 1973 live tapes, and a DVD concert film. Some would not, and are convinced that the Stones never made good records after Jones was ejected from the band.) It's the fact that Universal are not getting the live concert material from the Stones archives that I find interesting, and not so surprising.


*My* point is it was not included in a GHS box not because the Stones needed to have exclusive rights, but because a GHS box wouldn't be a winning proposition.

And note that regardless of where it comes out, the Stones own the rights anyway. Universal is merely their current distributor. That is in contrast to The Who, where it is Universal that owns the rights.

Jeff T. wrote:
My opinion again is that even if Pete wanted to issue UK 73' live Quad era as a stand alone release, he could go with Uni. But why throw it into a box set that one thinks is going to do well with just a partial 5.1, and a cool book, and demos.


Or, he simply thought the demos were more worthwhile than the live material.

Jeff T. wrote:
I do not think it is just he wants to sit on this stuff forever, the work bores him, and he does not need the money. The Stones sat on Brussels 73 for 29 years, Pink Floyd sat in live UK 74 for 28 years. What's another year of two when your having fun?


That's kind of my point. He doesn't need the money. He doesn't particularly care if the material is issued or not. The lack of live material in the box sure seems to come down to lack of interest more than anything.

Jeff T. wrote:
Wasn't is posted just recently on that other forum that Pet says that the UK leg of the Quad Tour produced some of the finest performances the band ever did? And that there are recordings?


You'd have to dig up a quote, as I don't think I've ever heard something like that.

Jeff T. wrote:
I think Pete is a very bright guy, and considers this stuff, especially now that the unit as a touring act is near (if not at) it's end. And that he will want to show off his band's better nights, just as the Stones have finally done with their's.


The fact that the band was releasing CDs of current concerts a few years ago rather than hot archival shows speaks volumes. The archival bandwagon was started 17 years ago, yet here we are with many of the same shows still in the vault. That isn't to say stuff will never be released, but if Pete was hot to release stuff, don't you think he would have made it happen by now?

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Actually, if you include videos, there's been a lot of archival Who stuff released in the last several years. (Amazing Journey, Kilburn (with bonus '69 show), reissued Maximum R&B with bonus '79 show, etc.) I suspect the conventional wisdom is that video is where the action is for live material, not audio-only.

But in the case of Townshend, I don't think he sits around thinking about how best to exploit his catalog for maximum monetary gain. Sure, he doesn't mind making some money, but get the impression that being interested in something is much more important at this point in his life. Old Who live shows don't particularly interest him, especially from '73 (again, for reasons that are abundantly clear after reading the essay in the Quad box).

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Jeff T. wrote:
Live Who tapes are the crown jewels of the Pete archives. Universal cannot claim rights to them under the band's contract under normal circumstances.


lukpac wrote:
Why do you say that? As far as I can recall, none of the archival live releases say anything like "Under license from Eel Pie" or "Under license from The Who Group Ltd". I have not seen The Who's contract, but exclusive contracts certainly weren't rare. If Universal doesn't own the rights to release archival live material outright, they likely at least have right of first refusal.


I would look at it from the other side, and check the credits on View for a Back Stage Pass, which I do not have a hard copy of. See who is credited with ownership there on those tracks. I'd be interested in knowing if Uni gets any mention. Is the KBFH or D.I.R. in the credits at all there?

lukpac wrote:
Or, he simply thought the demos were more worthwhile than the live material.

He doesn't particularly care if the material is issued or not. The lack of live material in the box sure seems to come down to lack of interest more than anything.


You've seen the video interview on the official Quad site correct? Pete mentions a fan base there that is of collectors who have an appetite for new stuff to hear and collect.

Jeff T. wrote:
Wasn't it posted just recently on that other forum that Pet says that the UK leg of the Quad Tour produced some of the finest performances the band ever did? And that there are recordings?


lukpac wrote:
You'd have to dig up a quote, as I don't think I've ever heard something like that.


JD over there posted this in my response to a comment on the slight lack of quality of the KBFH recordings. "The last of the four 1973 Edmonton shows was recorded and Pete considered those four Who shows the best of their career." Luke, are there some bit of this show out there to be heard?

Jeff T. wrote:
I think Pete is a very bright guy, and considers this stuff, especially now that the unit as a touring act is near (if not at) it's end. And that he will want to show off his band's better nights, just as the Stones have finally done with their's.


lukpac wrote:
The fact that the band was releasing CDs of current concerts a few years ago rather than hot archival shows speaks volumes. The archival bandwagon was started 17 years ago, yet here we are with many of the same shows still in the vault. That isn't to say stuff will never be released, but if Pete was hot to release stuff, don't you think he would have made it happen by now?


Not me. I've already stated that the Stones waited nearly 30 years (while issuing tons of live albums and videos of their current shows), Floyd the same basically. Save the best for last is pretty much par for the course imo.

We can't argue Pete's motives, or predict the future here. But if other artists' work flow is any indication, I think it is almost time for the really good, or best stuff to come out. And I am not at all surprised at such slow pace with classic rock vault goodies.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:51 pm 
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lukpac wrote:
He doesn't particularly care if the material is issued or not. The lack of live material in the box sure seems to come down to lack of interest more than anything.


I'll ask him next time we meet up - which could happen, you never know.

I was thinking last night when I was writing these posts above about how many times I'd bought Quad. Three sets of vinyl (orig. US, UK Track, and Japan CBS), 8-Track cart, 1st CD, remix CD, MFSL CD, and then a used 4-Track reel to reel somewhere in between (just as a collector's item I guess). Never got it on cassette.

I did ask Pete to sign that reel's box for me in gold ink which came out pertty good, but does not scan well as one can see here. I blew up the signature part so it can be seen a bit better. Nice piece huh!
Image

Image

Image

I just realized that adding up all the times that I have purchased Quadraphenia, it comes to seven times. I am not the biggest Who fan. The album may be in my top 10, not sure. I think I just wanted a really good version of it so that when I did give it a listen I'd have something near the best. I'm a Classic Rock fan 1965 to 1975 more than a Who fan or collector.

I did always wonder how it got issued on CBS/Sony in Japan on that Rock 100 series. One would think Polydor or MCA would have had it locked up everywhere. But I did also have a Who By Numbers on a black (no dog) RCA no kidding. I think it was Italian that one. It's long gone now.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:47 pm 
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Jeff T. wrote:
I would look at it from the other side, and check the credits on View for a Back Stage Pass, which I do not have a hard copy of. See who is credited with ownership there on those tracks. I'd be interested in knowing if Uni gets any mention. Is the KBFH or D.I.R. in the credits at all there?


I don't have a hard copy either, but presumably they could have gotten away with things there since it was a limited release.

Jeff T. wrote:
You've seen the video interview on the official Quad site correct? Pete mentions a fan base there that is of collectors who have an appetite for new stuff to hear and collect.


A fan base that has been around for years!

Jeff T. wrote:
JD over there posted this in my response to a comment on the slight lack of quality of the KBFH recordings. "The last of the four 1973 Edmonton shows was recorded and Pete considered those four Who shows the best of their career." Luke, are there some bit of this show out there to be heard?


Can't say I know anything about them. Certainly curious that if they were recorded and apparently so great they weren't included in any form on VFABP.

Jeff T. wrote:
Not me. I've already stated that the Stones waited nearly 30 years (while issuing tons of live albums and videos of their current shows), Floyd the same basically. Save the best for last is pretty much par for the course imo.

We can't argue Pete's motives, or predict the future here. But if other artists' work flow is any indication, I think it is almost time for the really good, or best stuff to come out. And I am not at all surprised at such slow pace with classic rock vault goodies.


Intentionally release lesser stuff (or nothing at all) so the best stuff can wait? I don't buy it, for *any* band.

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