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 Post subject: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:12 pm 
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Original album: this seems like a slightly improved mastering of the 1996 remix. Which is fine, I guess -- it was of the better remixes from that era. It would have been nice to stick a fresh master of the original mix on the nearly-empty DVD-A.

Demos: This are fun to listen to. I'm not all freaked about what's-his-name dubbing new drums on -- I mean, the guy has played on more Who studio tracks than Zak Starkey.

DVD-A: Shrug. Aside from only presenting the half the album, the mix is underwhelming. Instead of a widescreen, immersive experience, this is frustratingly bass-light and more focused on individual channels doing things than a cohesive 5.1 mix. It's not useless, but it's more frustrating than anything else. We also get the same eight tracks in stereo. Why not the whole LP in stereo (again, in the original mix)?

Book: This is awesome. A big long essay from Townshend with useful insights into his writing process and good perspective on what worked and didn't in the making of the album. Lots of attention is paid to quad sound, which again makes the "5.1 EP" all the more frustrating. Good notes on the demos, a fascinating studio diary, tons of great photos, and all the content from the original LP booklet. Top notch. Worth the purchase for me.

Extras: Kind of like what you get with Live At Leeds, except not quite as interesting. The single is a nice touch, I suppose. The packet holding these items features a picture of Townshend thrusting his crotch at you, which is disturbing. The vintage (looking?) poster is cool.

A really nice-looking package. If the DVD-A had been more comprehensive (like the ones in the King Crimson reissues) it would have been a home run, but the book saves it from being a wasted effort.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:24 pm 
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Mine is on the way.

I've heard that the 5.1 mix is often awash in reverb.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:29 am 
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Yeah, it is. That doesn't make it sound "big," just diffuse. Didn't work for me.

The bad news is IMO it's not a great 5.1 mix. The good news is that there isn't much of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Fang is convinced the multitracks are like that, but the mix sheet for LROM notes no vocal reverb on other tracks (and there are even 2 empty tracks), nor does it make a lick of sense.

My vote continues to be "bad mix".

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:28 am 
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Is the book a big hard bound type thing? I've not even seen the set in the store yet.

The thing about the remixed version of the album is that one of my favorite moments is in Sea and Sand" when the acoustic guitar plays those lovely arpeggios as the lines are sung "The Girl I Love... is a perfect dresser" and also during "UV lights making starshine". It's breath taking production, and stunning sounding recording of double tracked (I think) acoustic guitars.

On the remix, the guitars no longer make stars' shine, they no longer sparkle at all. Roger is brought up in the mix (which I'm sure he liked), and those guitars are lower and sound weaker in quality. Listen to this section will you, and compare the remix with original mix, and then tell me I'm crazy. That was all it took for me to sell off my brand new 2CD set back when and never look back. I made sure I've always had the MFSL CD set on hand ever sense.

I really think that Townshend has other things in mind with live 73 tapes. That is the only reason that they were not included in this set.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:32 am 
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Rspaight wrote:
It would have been nice to stick a fresh master of the original mix on the nearly-empty DVD-A.


Would this have killed them to hand over a HIGH-REZ 24/96 version of the original stereo album?

Townshend must be pissed off at Universal, and is holding back on all the live stuff, full 5.1, and high rez mastering. It just makes no sense unless it is about money, then it all makes much sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:26 am 
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Yes, the book is a big hardcover -- in fact, the set consists of the book in a slipcover, with the discs tucked in the inside covers.

Re: the '73 shows, Townshend makes quite clear in the book that he considers that tour a disaster, so I'm not surprised he's not eager to put that stuff out there.

As far as high-res goes, I'm dubious about the quality benefits, but there's sure a lot of room on that DVD. Again, look at the King Crimson discs -- you get a 5.1 mix, a new stereo mix, the original stereo mix and a bunch of outtakes, plus a little video content in some cases. Sure, Quad is a long album. So use a Blu-Ray.

I've heard lots of theories on the lack of a full 5.1 treatment -- lack of interest, lack of time, lack of sources (I don't buy that one), nefarious schemes for maximizing money, etc., etc.. I'd like to know the real reason. If it's an intent to sell everyone the full album later, it may have backfired. After hearing the "preview," a lot of people are suddenly less interested in the whole thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Jeff T. wrote:
I really think that Townshend has other things in mind with live 73 tapes. That is the only reason that they were not included in this set.


Like...not releasing them?

Jeff T. wrote:
Townshend must be pissed off at Universal, and is holding back on all the live stuff, full 5.1, and high rez mastering. It just makes no sense unless it is about money, then it all makes much sense.


I don't think it's about money at all. I think it's just Pete's vision, or lack thereof.

As far as the incomplete 5.1 goes, one theory that has been floated around is that it is an aborted mix from a few years ago, and they stopped when they ran into technical issues (i.e., reverb all of the multis), but 1) the technical issues don't make any sense and 2) I was told these were new mixes. Supposedly they were somewhat of an experiment that happened to turn out good and it was decided to include them.

As for the original mix, there were/are plans to put it on QCloud. Not sure if that will happen or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:01 pm 
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lukpac wrote:
As for the original mix, there were/are plans to put it on QCloud. Not sure if that will happen or not.


That would be excellent. No audio at all has made it there, has it? I don't see any, at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Jeff T. wrote:
I really think that Townshend has other things in mind with live 73 tapes. That is the only reason that they were not included in this set.


lukpac wrote:
Like...not releasing them?


Like a separate release. There has been a slow steady flow of new product over the last 20 odd years. Some remixes, bonus tracks, live sides, box set, deluxe editions, concert video, etc. There might not be that much more that can be squeezed out of the vaults.

So to hold back on the live 73 (I read UK 73 was hot performances / recording) for a separate release later makes sense if the vaults have only so many things left.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:15 pm 
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Jeff T. wrote:
Like a separate release.


I'm going with "no release". My guess is Pete is at best indifferent to the live Quad material.

Jeff T. wrote:
There has been a slow steady flow of new product over the last 20 odd years. Some remixes, bonus tracks, live sides, box set, deluxe editions, concert video, etc. There might not be that much more that can be squeezed out of the vaults.


Not in terms of live material. IOW, Leeds (kind of) and Hull (kind of). Sure, VFABP, but that was a niche thing and not very good. They've spent more than 15 years *not* releasing stuff like Fillmore East '68, Woodstock, San Francisco '71, Philly and/or Largo '73, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:51 pm 
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lukpac wrote:
Jeff T. wrote:
Like a separate release.


I'm going with "no release". My guess is Pete is at best indifferent to the live Quad material.

Jeff T. wrote:
There has been a slow steady flow of new product over the last 20 odd years. Some remixes, bonus tracks, live sides, box set, deluxe editions, concert video, etc. There might not be that much more that can be squeezed out of the vaults.


Not in terms of live material. IOW, Leeds (kind of) and Hull (kind of). Sure, VFABP, but that was a niche thing and not very good. They've spent more than 15 years *not* releasing stuff like Fillmore East '68, Woodstock, San Francisco '71, Philly and/or Largo '73, etc.


Plus the wonderful Young Vic slab included in the DE Who's Next, does that not count?

But anyway, my point was that Townshend is holding back on this stuff, and I think because it is all that is left, they are reaching the end of the line, and some of the good stuff will come.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Then there was that "Greatest Hits Live" thing that I didn't even bother to buy...

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:59 pm 
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Jeff T. wrote:
Plus the wonderful Young Vic slab included in the DE Who's Next, does that not count?


Not if we're talking about "holding things back" or whatever. The Who's Next DE could have easily been a 2 CD set of studio recordings, with the complete Young Vic being a separate release. Instead they cut it back and stuck it in as the second CD of the DE.

Jeff T. wrote:
But anyway, my point was that Townshend is holding back on this stuff, and I think because it is all that is left, they are reaching the end of the line, and some of the good stuff will come.


Holding it back for what? So they can not release it in the future?

Much of the live material may still surface, but I don't think the reason it hasn't already has anything to do with holding things back because they are running out of material. Rather, I don't think there's any big push to actually get the stuff released. The Quad box ended up the way it did because that was what Pete wanted it to be, not because he wants to make more money on separate live releases. The box surely would be selling much better now if there was more included from the band beyond just the original album.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Quad box
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:23 pm 
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lukpac wrote:
Jeff T. wrote:
Plus the wonderful Young Vic slab included in the DE Who's Next, does that not count?


Not if we're talking about "holding things back" or whatever. The Who's Next DE could have easily been a 2 CD set of studio recordings, with the complete Young Vic being a separate release. Instead they cut it back and stuck it in as the second CD of the DE.

Jeff T. wrote:
But anyway, my point was that Townshend is holding back on this stuff, and I think because it is all that is left, they are reaching the end of the line, and some of the good stuff will come.


Holding it back for what? So they can not release it in the future?

Much of the live material may still surface, but I don't think the reason it hasn't already has anything to do with holding things back because they are running out of material. Rather, I don't think there's any big push to actually get the stuff released. The Quad box ended up the way it did because that was what Pete wanted it to be, not because he wants to make more money on separate live releases. The box surely would be selling much better now if there was more included from the band beyond just the original album.


I brought up the Young Vic Theater show because it was issued (at least as a single disc), and not noted in your post that included issued live vault material. And I liked having it on a vinyl platter to slp on like it is still the 70s (hahaha).

I think Pete makes less money on anything that includes Polydor/Universal Who catalog tiles. A Quadrophenia box set, or a double. He is better off mixing a live 73 show (or the full 1971), and issuing it on his own under a different deal.

The Rolling Stones signed a new deal with Universal not long ago. But get this, as you know, they got Bob Clearmountain to do a mixdown of their hot Brussels 73 stint. And did they include it in a new DE GHS box (on Uni?) No fucking way, they did a download under their own logo. It was priced at $5 and $9 respectively. Once you cut out the steel and glass towering inferno from the pie, you stand to make out much better in this new world order. $5 now, is better than $2 later is how I once described it. That is the difference. So Pete now knows how big his market is, has the website cooking pretty good, the fans, the money. Uni is not going to get the best unissued stuff. Just my opinion of course.


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