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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:55 pm 
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I could probably do that.

As far as what Steve did or didn't do: why not ask him?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:27 pm 
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I can't post at SHtv (even if I wanted to) and I've never emailed SH (and I'm not about to start now). However, if someone else asked, I'd read his reply with interest. I don't know why SH just didn't describe Landee's notes...it's not like that was privileged information.

FWIW, I copied this from the back of the AF slipcase...sure implies "flat transfer" to me, or at least a primarily "flat transfer" philosophy.

"We use only the original master mixes played back on a specially constructed vintage playback deck. Here's where the PLUS (+) comes in: The analog masters are put through our new proprietary analog to digital converter which reinforces the resolution of the original masters adding true "breath of life" to the music. Without any further sonic manipulation the master is shipped directly to the manufacturing plant ..."

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:33 pm 
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I think every DCC disc had essentially the same wording. I.e., take it with a grain of salt.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:01 am 
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Here are the MP3 Clips:

Clip 1 is the Japan CD, level matched to the Audio Fidelity CD.

Clip 2 is Clip 1 EQed +10db@100, minus 8db@8000, slope 6 (12db/octave, but I'm guessing on this), thereby (supposedly) undoing the EQ applied when the CD was mastered.

Clip 3 is Clip 1 EQed to my taste (bass boost, very slight treble cut)

Clip 4 is the Audio Fidelity CD, straight.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:24 am 
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Hmm. The biggest problem I have with that recording is a somewhat strange midrange sound, which also holds true on the DCC CD, But the Japanese CD doesn't seem to fix that, it just jacks the high end up and really thins things out.

I don't know. I guess I'm not hearing a clear cut winner like with China Grove.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:39 pm 
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lukpac wrote:
The biggest problem I have with that recording is a somewhat strange midrange sound...

Can you be more specific? Is it something you hear in the vocals?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:57 pm 
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Eh...not at this time of night, anyway. Did you ever listen to the two versions of China Grove?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:21 pm 
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DCC GR Hits and ROTS Vol 2, right?

Yes I have and I prefer the ROTS version. I don't recall why exactly but I seem to remember the ROTS having a brighter, more dynamic sound.

Except for the ROTS China Grove, every SH mastered Doobies track I've heard has not been to my liking at all.

Actually, I find a fair number of SH remasterings to be unacceptably dull. Elton John gr hits (Crocodile Rock is particularly bad), Cars gr hits (tracks from Heartbeat City), Doobies, CCR Bayou Country (SACD) just to name a few off the top of my head. To be fair, though, some of those (like Croc Rock and Heartbeat City) sound even worse on regular CD.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:52 am 
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Dob wrote:
CCR Bayou Country (SACD)

Certainly not the best recording, judging from the huge amount of hiss. But dull? Not in my opinion. The vocals sound very natural, life-like. More top end would just make them thinner and a bit shrill.

The DCC was not up to Steve's standard, though. He cut off the high end on Graveyard Train and Keep On Chooglin', and the result was rather lifeless. The SACD is a clear improvement.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:49 am 
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Dob wrote:
DCC GR Hits and ROTS Vol 2, right?

Yes I have and I prefer the ROTS version. I don't recall why exactly but I seem to remember the ROTS having a brighter, more dynamic sound.


Those are the two. The ROTS version is a bit brighter, but I think the biggest difference is in the midrange. The gold CD has a lot more. Reducing that a bit really helps, IMO.

http://lukpac.org/mp3/china_grove_silver.mp3
http://lukpac.org/mp3/china_grove_gold.mp3

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:09 pm 
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Andreas wrote:
(SH) cut off the high end on Graveyard Train and Keep On Chooglin', and the result was rather lifeless. The SACD is a clear improvement.

What he did on the DCC was do a treble cut (9-10K, IIRC) to lessen the tape hiss and then boost other treble frequencies (12-13K, IIRC) to compensate. The SACD is closer to (if not actually) a flat transfer.

I suppose that it's a matter of preference. However, I don't see how you find the SACD brighter than the DCC. To me the DCC is obviously brighter...it's not even close.

Andreas wrote:
The DCC was not up to Steve's standard, though.

It's funny how the reputation of the DCCs fades with time. Before the SACDs were released, not only did I read nothing but raves for the Creedence DCCs, but they were often held up as examples of SH's very best work. After the SACDs, the DCCs were considered not quite as good, but still superb. Now, portions of the DCCs are "not up to Steve's standard."

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:33 pm 
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lukpac wrote:
The ROTS version is a bit brighter, but I think the biggest difference is in the midrange. The gold CD has a lot more. Reducing that a bit really helps, IMO.

I just listened to these again (the CDs, not the mp3s) and the ROTS is so much more spacious that it sounds like it was taken from a much better source tape. Bass wise they're about the same, but the DCC has more of a peaky, pinched, "AM radio tonality." Not good.

My Captain and Me Japan CD sounds better than the DCC but not as good as the ROTS. SH did a good job on that track...I'm less enthused about his work on some of the other ones, like Undun (from the same CD).

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:04 am 
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Listen again. The source for the gold CD is a lot better (less hiss, more separation), it just doesn't have the extra EQ the silver CD does.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:50 am 
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Dob wrote:
What he did on the DCC was do a treble cut (9-10K, IIRC) to lessen the tape hiss and then boost other treble frequencies (12-13K, IIRC) to compensate. The SACD is closer to (if not actually) a flat transfer.

I suppose that it's a matter of preference. However, I don't see how you find the SACD brighter than the DCC. To me the DCC is obviously brighter...it's not even close.

I did not say that the SACD was brighter. Please stick to what I have written. I noticed that something was missing on the DCC on those two songs. I called it "the high end", but your explanation is more accurate. For the other songs, I did not notice much difference in tonality between the DCC and the SACD, if any.

Quote:
It's funny how the reputation of the DCCs fades with time.

One DCC CD is not up to Steve's standard, in my opinion, and only because of those two songs. The DCC Cosmo's Factory, on the other hand, is awesome, and maybe better than the SACD because of the absence of that pop in Run Through The Jungle. Nevertheless, I sold the DCC when I bought the SACD. You know, remasters are always better. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:26 am 
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Yeah, I think those DCC CCR CD's, IIRC, were interesting mastering-wise because of the way the band sounded compared to the lead vocal. Not sure how it was recorded, mixed, or how the mics were set-up, but if you played back the master straight on most speakers, Fogerty's vocal was toppy. The band sounded fine, but if you wanted a more natural vocal, the band would lose a little bit on top. Steve's big on focusing on the vocal, he believes some mastering engineers make the mistake of focusing on the cymbals when it comes to top end adjustment, and since most CD's pretty much keep the band intact, I think he decided to do something different with the DCC CD's just so we have something with a 'natural' sounding vocal.

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