Cream 'Wheels of Fire"

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krabapple
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Cream 'Wheels of Fire"

Postby krabapple » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:14 pm

Let's face it, the Cream albums sound like crap. However, having read Hoffman's description of his damn-the-master-tapes work on WoF, I'm interesting in hearing how it compares to the standard issue remaster taht came out after. If anyone here could 'help' me 'hear' the DCC WoF, I can 'help' them 'hear' the DCC Aqualung and the DCC Saxophone Colossus (the only two DCCs I own) in exchange. Or any other OOP stuff I have.
"I recommend that you delete the Rancid Snakepit" - Grant

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Postby lukpac » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:59 pm

I'd say it's the best available, but I'm unsure the difference is as huge as some would like to believe. I will say it sounds pretty good for what it is, though.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby krabapple » Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:47 pm

lukpac wrote:I'd say it's the best available, but I'm unsure the difference is as huge as some would like to believe. I will say it sounds pretty good for what it is, though.


Well, if I can score a 'listen', I'm going to focus on the vocals and bass, which is where Hoffman says he applied the most magic (having given up making Baker's crap snare drum sound resemble anything like a real drum).
"I recommend that you delete the Rancid Snakepit" - Grant

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Postby lukpac » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:42 pm

I'll see what I can do.

Funny, I kind of like that drum kit sound. Although it's better on Layla than it is on WoF.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Ess Ay Cee Dee » Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:19 pm

nt
Last edited by Ess Ay Cee Dee on Mon May 02, 2005 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

John Buchanan
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Postby John Buchanan » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:02 pm

Wheels of Fire on DCC is the best version of an indifferent recording. The late Tom Dowd didn't do Cream much of a service with the recording (even Fresh Cream sounds better than Disraeli Gears and Wheels of Fire)
The DCC set starts with the superb packaging - the printing was done using the same vendors who did the original ATCO album in 1968, and uses black on alfoil for the cover, unlike anything since the original ATCO. Soundwise, comparing the Those Were The Days versions with the DCC, the DCC has the low end purr of Jack's organ and a real kick to Ginger's bass drum - I believe SH refers to the removal of the bottom end in standard releases as "shaving the cloud" - it certainly happened to the TWTD version. There is some distortion in the beginning of Train Time in Jack's harmonica that is not evident on the DCC and very obvious on the TWTD version. I also like the addition of Anyone for Tennis, the extended version of Passing The Time and the few seconds of the ambient intro to Spoonful. If you get the US pressed version rather than the earlier Japanese pressed version, there are 3 hidden bonus tracks added (alternate mixes of tracks whose titles escape me as I don't have this version - see the Those Were The Days website for more details)
Way worth getting.
John Buchanan

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Postby lukpac » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:15 pm

Passing the Time (short version - the long version is in the main lineup), Sitting On Top Of The World and As You Said, IIRC.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby krabapple » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:24 pm

I'll be comparing the DCC to the 1998 (I think) Polydor remaster (it's been remastered again since then, hasn't it?) and to the tracks on 1995 'Very Best of Cream' CD.
"I recommend that you delete the Rancid Snakepit" - Grant

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Postby lukpac » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:25 am

lukpac wrote:Funny, I kind of like that drum kit sound. Although it's better on Layla than it is on WoF.


Ok, after listening again, I need to qualify that.

I do like that miking style (also heard on Layla), but on WoF the execution isn't there for the most part. The main thing is there's just really little actual high end, although some tracks are better than others.

Yes, the hidden bonus tracks are Sitting On Top Of The World (alt mix), As You Said (alt mix) and As You Said (original/short mix).

Without directly comparing it to any other versions (at the moment), one interesting thing about the DCC is the hiss. It's still there, but it's almost like it's "covered up" by the music more than on other CDs. I know the Crossroads version of White Room just rolled off the high end totally, while the original CD was kind of bright and really hissy.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby John Buchanan » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:44 pm

Check out this page (mostly written by me, but the bit about vinyl being crappy was added by Graeme Pattingale) regarding the Cream remasters.
http://twtd.bluemountains.net.au/cream/whichsound.htm
John Buchanan

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Postby lukpac » Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:05 pm

Cream's latest remasters are an excellent example of the difficulties of the technology.  The major problem is that only the mixed down two track masters are available with few exceptions.  There is some chioce between alternate mixes and non vs equalised masters but no multi-tracks exist to truelly remix.


FYI the Fresh Cream multis *do* exist.

Note: original CD releases are not discussed as they were direct, non RIAA equalised, conversions of the analogue masters.


I think I understand what you were trying to say here, and it's incorrect. "LP copy tapes" don't have the RIAA curve on them - that's always added in the actual cutting stage. If you actually heard a tape *with* the curve you'd think it was much worse than the worst CD out there now.

The all-to-obvious conclusion is that the master mono-mix tape no longer exists.


I believe at the time only the master for side 2 could be located, hence I'm So Glad. Side 1 has since shown up, from what I've been told.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby John Buchanan » Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:59 am

Luke,
I know this sounds like a cop out, but all of those quotes were not in the original text - ie added by Graeme. If you would like a copy of the original text (which is quite a large word document), please feel free to email me for a return address
John
John Buchanan

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Postby lukpac » Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:21 am

No biggie...

FWIW, I pulled out my original Polydor (Dennis Drake) CD issue of WoF the other day to compare to the DCC, and while there *are* differences, I'm not sure if they are as great as I thought they were. The DCC seems a little bigger on the bottom and slightly rolled off on the top, but I wouldn't say it's night and day.

I should really post a few comparison MP3s.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD