Can Remasters

Want to review the latest CD reissue? Or a 30 year old LP you just picked up? Discuss it all here.
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Postby Crummy Old Label Avatar » Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:34 pm

I just found a guy with a few MP3s on Soulseek.

I see what you mean, COLA. I can't tell whether this is the encode or the actual sound of the material, but everything has an oddly "metallic" sheen. Hiss seems to pump with Damo's voice. "One More Night" is particularly egregious, as Jaki's hi-hat work is suddenly very loud, very trebly, and very up-front.


If they are the VBR mp3s on Soulseek, I know who did those. He did an excellent job, encoding with LAME. I heard those files before I heard the actual discs, but, as Krabapple said, I wasn't about to judge on the basis of an mp3.

Sad to say, those mp3s are very faithful to the discs. That "pumping" sound you hear on the vocals is there throughout, and it's especially noticeable all over Ege Bamyasi. I concur with your analysis of "One More Night". What was once perhaps the most seductive and sensuous of Can songs now sounds harsh and almost aggressive. I'd call this a travesty, really.

They should've left well enough alone. Notice that Jaki's name isn't mentioned for the remastering. I especially like that video on the Can DVD in which they play Jaki a Can 5.1 surround mix in the studio. He seems far from impressed and says something like, "I guess if people want 5 channels now, whatever. I'd just as well go with everything mono - I couldn't care less!"

A wise man, Jaki.
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Xenu
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Postby Xenu » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:18 pm

krabapple wrote:To utilize the entire dynamic range of CD without actually changing anything else, simply normalize the tracks of the old CDs to full scale. (With the caveat that with tapes this noisy, you can't ever really exploit the DR of digital to its full extent.)


That isn't really "utilizing the entire dynamic range," though. THAT involves getting as close as possible to 0dB during the actual A-->D transfer. The Can discs occasionally use about 2/3 of the available bandwidth, meaning that they probably should have done another pass with a greater volume.
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Postby krabapple » Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:06 am

FWIW, here's wavforms for old and new CD versions of 'Mushroom'. The new one's obviously been jacked up, and there's a cluster of flattops about 2/3 of the way through it (and many scattered throughout) -- thought they don't show up as clipped samples in Audition's analysis because the whole track appears to have been subsequently normalized to about -0.5 dB from FS. Still, it doesn't sound bad, IMO.

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Postby Xenu » Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:04 pm

Krab, where did you find these? I might as well pick one up to see if the MP3s accurately represented the sound...however, I'm loathe to pay retail for 'em. I'm assuming that Best Buy didn't order them?

At the moment, this feels like a lesser-of-two-evils situation: the half-bandwidth, ugly early discs, or the kinda tweaked, please-god-let-that-NR-just-be-MP3-artifacting prettier hybrids (BTW, I can't understand the point of going with hybrid SACDs. I'd be surprised if Tago Mago had frequency response anywhere near the threshold of benefitting from that treatment).
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Postby krabapple » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:36 pm

I ordered the Can remaster online from somewhere -- can't remember for sure but it could have been www.artist-shop.com, since I know I've dealt with them lately,a nd they do carry it. It definitely wasn't Best Buy.

I agree that SACD formatting for Tago Mago is overkill. I haven't compared the analog-output SACD layer to the CD layer yet.... ( I did do that for a Stones SACD track recently, btw, and the results were quite encouraging, in that there wasn't all that much difference between the Cool Edit stats for the ripped CD track, an A/D transferred Cd track, and an A/D transfer SACD track -- IIRC the CD versions were at only a *slighly* higher level than the SACD, with one or two clipped samples -- this was for 'Street Fighting Man' off of LiB, btw)

Could someone point out an index pt where the Tago mago NR/MP3 artifacting is most audible? I'll check it on the SACD.

In case anyone's wondering, simlpy normalizing the old track doesn't get you to the new one...the difference is something like 6 dB between them, and you *have* to do some peak limiting to get there from the old 'Mushroom'. But normalizing will boost the overall level a couple of dB, for this track.
Which you can also do using the volume control on your stereo :lol:
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Postby lukpac » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:46 pm

krabapple wrote:this was for 'Street Fighting Man' off of LiB, btw


Wow, an alternate track lineup on SACD! Put it in the FAQ, David!
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Postby Dob » Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:47 pm

lukpac wrote:Wow, an alternate track lineup on SACD! Put it in the FAQ, David!

I admit that's funnier than "Street Fighting Man isn't on Let It Bleed, jackass. :evil:"
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Postby Xenu » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:45 pm

lukpac wrote:
krabapple wrote:this was for 'Street Fighting Man' off of LiB, btw


Wow, an alternate track lineup on SACD! Put it in the FAQ, David!


I think it's your turn to update.
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Postby lukpac » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:05 am

Hmm...I suppose.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby krabapple » Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:35 pm

oh for fuck's sake.

Way to live up to the stereotype , lads.

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Xenu
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Postby Xenu » Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:00 pm

I don't know what this means.

Anyway, while I keep seeing the remasters for reasonable prices, I haven't seen them sub-$12 yet, which I think will be my cut-off for picking 'em up.
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Postby krabapple » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:15 am

It means, have you ever seen that sketch on SNL where Jimmy Fallon plays 'the tech support guy' ?

That's what Luke's 'gotcha' reminded me of.
"I recommend that you delete the Rancid Snakepit" - Grant