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For discussion of those 'grey area' CDs
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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:53 pm

Karnbach has this:

"The Stones performed for nearly an hour before a select audience at the BBC's Camden Theatre, although only 15 minutes of their show was actually aired on the program broadcast on May 9, 1964."

No idea if that is true or not. Apparently I was misremembering an actual list of songs.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

Tom Stroud
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Postby Tom Stroud » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:44 pm

I'd guess that perhaps the finished show ran for an hour; or maybe it took an hour to tape it.

I don't have the audio to hand but I'm pretty sure Baldry refers to other acts in his intro. It wasn't a "Stones" show per se - it was called something like "Rhythm And Blues" or similar.

It was the style of the day to have a multi act show anchored around a host. Even those Beatles "specials" had a pre-recorded music session and interview material interspersed with other acts to fill up the show. An hour devoted to a "pop" act across a BBC network would have been pretty unheard of in 1964 I'd have thought.

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Postby lukpac » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:57 pm

I suppose it is possible somebody saw "the show ran for an hour" and assumed it was all the Stones.

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is RHYTHM & BLUES! And here with us this morning we have the great Georgie Fame and his Blue Flames, and those charming deviationists, THE ROLLING STONES!"

Although...did Georgie Fame get 45 minutes? Or maybe the show was only a half hour? Whatever the case, I have to wonder if Baldry was overdubbed later. Maybe I'm wrong, but the whole thing seems too tight to be entirely live.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

Tom Stroud
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Postby Tom Stroud » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:30 am

Perhaps it was only half an hour. I think those Beatles shows (before the extended Bank Hol specials) were only 30 mins.

Not sure about edits. They might have tidied it up afterwards but it does feel quite live. Stereo machines seem to have been pretty rare at the BBC in those days so bouncing it around might have been problematic.

Also it does sound like LJB is "in the room". I think it's Cops And Robbers where he intros the track and you can then hear the room ambience change when they close his mic (lots of reverb disappears).

On the Sat Club / TOTPs shows they would often get Brian Matthew to revoice links / questions to make the artist chats work with the show. This show (with audience) does feel "of the moment". But, yes it's pretty slick.

FWIW this is Britain in 1964 and the BBC is all powerful. Acts didn't get to approve takes and time is short for this pop stuff. As far as the acts were concerned it might as well have been live. The sessions Bernie Andrews produced for Top Gear were fairly innovative for the Beeb as they gave acts more time to record and allowed for overdubs via bouncing. Have a quick flick through the Beatles BBC album. The 1963 songs are straight live-in-the-studio versions; by the AHDN sessions they're double tracking vocals. In the relative comfort of a night session at Maida Vale with a producer they trust, without an audience etc etc.

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Postby lukpac » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:44 am

I almost pointed out the beginning of Cops And Robbers, but I had attributed it to an edit. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll have to listen more closely.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Tom Stroud » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:16 pm

Keith Badman's Good Times, Bad Times says that the stereo experimental show was 1 hour long but the second half was made up of "standards from the shows". The Stones / Georgie Fame made up the first 30 mins.

I was amazed when I first heard the quality of this session, especially when you compare it to how rough other BBC sessions from this era sound. Ludicrous to think that things like this and the Chess outtakes are still unreleased. I can understand why artists don't want rough versions with mistakes being issued but things like this are hardly going to harm their reputation.

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Postby lukpac » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:51 pm

Tom Stroud wrote:I was amazed when I first heard the quality of this session, especially when you compare it to how rough other BBC sessions from this era sound. Ludicrous to think that things like this and the Chess outtakes are still unreleased. I can understand why artists don't want rough versions with mistakes being issued but things like this are hardly going to harm their reputation.


I was blown away when I first heard this. Compare it to the sound on the first album...
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD