Rolling Stones 'Time Trip Vol.5'

For discussion of those 'grey area' CDs
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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:26 pm

Xenu wrote:Downloading as we speak. Luke, any chance this'll stimulate the creative, FAQ-upgrading process?;)


You tell me :P

I sent you an e-mail.

I wonder where the Satisfaction backing track (not here) came from, since they didn't mime to that on Sullivan.
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Postby Tom Stroud » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:31 pm

Then there's that whole slew of Buttons era backing tracks.... and they're in stereo.

I think the Gimme Shelter that confuses things come from a UK TV show from December 69; it's got a live vocal and no female vocals or oohs.

Has that Satisfaction backing track ever turned up without the tape speed issues?

On a (semi related) note - my Black Box download has got some fairly heavy NR on a lot of stuff. Is this the norm or has somebody "remastered" mine?

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Postby Tom Stroud » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:38 pm

lukpac wrote:
Tom Stroud wrote:I've often wondered if those backing tracks exist because they were orginally mixed down for TV appearances (especially the Ed Sullivan shows).

I don't have my Ed Sullivan DVD to hand but I remember Paint It Black was edited. I'd be very interested if the edit is in the same place.

They did HYSYMB and Lady Jane on the show too which might explain those instrumentals.


Are these it? Paint It Black is edited and matches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4wn85uHfz4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aKKazpwzIU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjGQYZPw5PI

I think you nailed it. Nice catch. I never would have thought of that.


That's the show. Check the backing vocals on HYSYMB too - they're from the record. They're miming to that instrumental plus backing vocal mix.

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Postby Xenu » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:55 pm

Wow. Interesting. This "Paint It Black" isn't quite the same as the one on Black Box, though: the intro doesn't have the stray piano note? Maybe I'm misremembering. Lady Jane seems to be similar, though (and you can still hear the ghost vocal!)
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Postby Aftermath » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:20 am

Re the Satisfaction backing track: The stones appeared on a number of other shows besides Sullivan during the mid-'60s, and it's likely just one of those tapes (e.g. Shindig, although that one may have been messed with to censor the lyric). As for the tape speed issues w/Satisfaction backing track, there's a version out there that's had some work done on it and has most of the problems corrected, although it's not perfect. As for PIB, yeah, there's a stray note or two clipped off on TT5, I was just referring to the general length.

Can't believe we finally got Key to the Highway and that early version of Mercy Mercy, esp. with this clarity :D

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Postby Tom Stroud » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:27 am

I can't find it on Youtube but I'm pretty sure that when they played Satisfaction on Shindig they actually mimed to the abandoned Chess version rather than the RCA master. I've got it on DVD (somewhere) but I haven't watched it since I read they mimed to the Chess version.....

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Postby Xenu » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:31 am

Is this circulating in lossless at all?
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Postby Aftermath » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:22 am

I think it's on the BT tracker over at Rocks Off.

I can't find it on Youtube but I'm pretty sure that when they played Satisfaction on Shindig they actually mimed to the abandoned Chess version rather than the RCA master.


Their first appearance did show them playing to a version with harmonica I think you're referring to--I've never been sure whether it was the abandoned Chess master or not, but I suppose it could have been. They did a second appearance a few months later with the standard (albeit censored) version--part of that is on the 25x5 video.

Anyone know whether stuff like The Last Time and Breakdown on TT 5 sound like they were taken from Dick Bartley's stuff? (I don't have DB copies, hence the question)

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Postby lukpac » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:44 am

Aftermath wrote:Anyone know whether stuff like The Last Time and Breakdown on TT 5 sound like they were taken from Dick Bartley's stuff? (I don't have DB copies, hence the question)


I'm thinking not. All the stereo tracks on TT were on that aborted ABKCO "stereo" album, and they seem to all come from a similar source. I'm only aware of 19th and The Last Time from Bartley, and they sound better than the versions here.

Anyone actually have a copy of Dartford Renegades?
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby JohnS » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:43 pm

hmmm... I post this subject/thread, get no responses for a few days, come back after a while and it's thriving (I thought it might!)
Alas, I can't get the rapidshare link to download without being corrupt but I have the 'TT 5' CD coming to me from an other source... thanks for all comments whihc suggest I'm in for a treat with this one. But, pardon my ignorance, can anyone fill me in with info on the 'Abckco "stereo" album' and the 'Dick Bartley stuff'?
Yours curiously, etc

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Postby lukpac » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:59 am

JohnS wrote:But, pardon my ignorance, can anyone fill me in with info on the 'Abckco "stereo" album' and the 'Dick Bartley stuff'?


Dick Bartley - he has played The Last Time and 19th Nervous Breakdown in good quality stereo for some time. In 1998 or so fairly high quality versions finally began circulating. While I'm not certain, I have a feeling these originated from Bartley.

ABKCO stereo album - apparently in the late '60s or early '70s ABKCO compiled an album of stereo tracks: 19th Nervous Breakdown (both versions), Get Off Of My Cloud, The Last Time, Satisfaction, Heart of Stone, Paint It Black, Goin' Home and Have You Seen Your Mother. These same 9 tracks have shown up in places like Dartford Renegades (in terrible quality). Why such an album was ever compiled is unclear, but apparently 15 IPS reels exist for it.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby JohnS » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:02 am

I finally got to hear this and must say it's great, probably the best new vintage Stones boot for some time. Those first three tracks are completely new - Track 1 being another Arthur Alexander cover a la You Better Move On, would have slotted in fine on the first LP, and the two new Chess tracks are great and in nice quality (better than the recently surfaced Reelin & Rockin' anyway)
The Regent Sound demos are in much-improved sound quality here, much clearer than on other releases.
I've never heard the 'rough mix' of Mother before, a very odd mix at that - some vocals/instrumentation all but inaudible, almost as if it's one channel only of a hard left-right stereo mix, which was once a theory of mine about the released single mix. Wonder if the two would marry up well... there's one for the OOPSers/outfake enthusiasts to try
The other stereo tracks sound good to me, and yes, Heart Of Stone has a slightly longer fade. All in all some nice finds on here

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Postby lukpac » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:20 pm

JohnS wrote:I've never heard the 'rough mix' of Mother before, a very odd mix at that - some vocals/instrumentation all but inaudible, almost as if it's one channel only of a hard left-right stereo mix, which was once a theory of mine about the released single mix. Wonder if the two would marry up well... there's one for the OOPSers/outfake enthusiasts to try


It sounds to me like the mono mix, simply without the lead vocal (and with a different guitar tag on the end). I don't know if I have or not, but I know I've heard a sync-up of this and the mono mix.

I once heard an earlier mix where the drums were a lot clearer. Unfortunately I can't seem to locate that one anymore.

I get the feeling that things got mucked up in a reduction mix along the way. I still have hope for a better copy of the stereo mix though.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Aftermath » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:07 pm

I once heard an earlier mix where the drums were a lot clearer. Unfortunately I can't seem to locate that one anymore.


There's an alternate mix with clearer drums and a slightly different lead vocal on the Black Box comp.

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Postby Tom Stroud » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:43 am

The earlier mix is the one with the different intro right?

No distorted guitar and Mick singing "you live in the shadow....." at the start?

Incidentally - Oldham's book has a piece on them recording Mother. Apparently the overdub on the intro of the master is (as well as the fuzz guitar) Mick and Keith making a vocal "bowwwwoooooowwww" sound. It sounds weird but listen again to the track and it is plausible. Imagine someone doing an impersonation of a didgeridoo sound.

The (fairly) interesting thing about this weird vocal trick is that they also do it on the version on the "Got Live...." album. IIRC the the instrumental track for HYSYM on the live album is very clean sounding - much less live than say Time Is On My Side - then it leads into Satisfaction with that piano overdub so I'm wondering if the "live" versions of Mother / Satisfaction were re-recorded from scratch?

Obviously some stuff on the album (I'm Alright) started out as a live recording with overdubs but the later stuff has suspiciously good fidelity at times.