I'm only interested in Face to Face, Something Else, Village Green..., and Arthur, but what are the best places to get the mono mixes? Are the mini-Lp Japanese CD's mono? Were the old PRT's mono?
I have a Japanese CD of singles from 1964-1966 that sounds really good, so I'm set for the early stuff.
I have the 1998 Essential CD of Face to Face that's supposed to suck, but it doesn't sound as bad as I thought it would. At least one or two tracks seem to use bad sources because there's actually more noise/hiss than what I've found on other old compilation CD's, and it is louder, but otherwise the EQ isn't that bad.
The EQ on Something Else and VGPS is atrocious, but I think much of that is due to the bad EQ that was applied during mixing and/or recording. It's been mentioned at the other forum, and you can easily hear how things got real tinny all of a sudden between Face to Face and Something Else. I put Something Else through a cheap freeware sound editing program, took out something like 5 db at 16k and 3 db at 8k and 1 db at 6k. Normally that's way too much but in this case the acoustic guitar still sounded real compressed and tinny but the vocals were more pleasing without sounding dull.
Best Kinks CDs featuring original mono mixes
The '98 discs are NRed, and *then* EQed. VGPS is especially noxious.
The old PRTs were stereo, not mono. The non-Japanese miniLP is apparently the only place to get Arthur in mono on CD. As for the others...I think the '98 discs are all you have for Something Else and Face, unfortunately.
The old PRTs were stereo, not mono. The non-Japanese miniLP is apparently the only place to get Arthur in mono on CD. As for the others...I think the '98 discs are all you have for Something Else and Face, unfortunately.
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"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911
"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911
The PRT (and/or Castle) double-CD set "The Kinks Are Well-Respected Men" collects the non-album tracks from the 1960s (and therefore many of the bonus tracks on the remasters). It is 100% mono and has the best sound for mono Kinks you can get on CD. Sadly no album tracks.
Those who have bought it could compare the mono VGPS on the deluxe edition versus the 1998 remaster...from the clips I have heard, it seems it sounds a bit less disastrous.
Those who have bought it could compare the mono VGPS on the deluxe edition versus the 1998 remaster...from the clips I have heard, it seems it sounds a bit less disastrous.
Though he basically admitted to compression on the whole set, implying it was not their call and out of their hands, Andy complemented the mastering engineer on the new deluxe edition for doing a good job on less-than-audiophile-quality tapes. I have yet to hear it, but it makes me wonder what EQ was applied.
Steve Hoffman blasted the 'homemade' - what that means specifically, I don't know - EQ of the post-1966 mixes and said if Audio Fidelity ever got a hold of the rights to the Kinks, it would probably be the first time we'd ever get to hear these albums with proper tonality.
Just listen the VGPS and Something Else and compare them to the earlier hits. Those earlier singles were never hi-fi to begin with but they sound a lot less shrill/tinny/grating/etc. in general. Even the good CD's, the one's that are allegedly flat transfers, have this problem because it's built into the mix.
The 1998 remasters, as mentioned, have the denoising, not sure if it's CEDAR, NoNoise, or what. Supposedly they used a Trident EQ console, just like Toby Mountain's, which is a crappy, solid-state console that really sounds like a bad, solid-state console - cold, hard, non-musical, the anti-breath of life. Add to that EQ adjustments that don't fix the problems built into the mix and in some cases make them worse, and it's a recipe for disaster. Some say there's compression problems, too, which is really unfortunate because if you were to take out the excessive high-end energy on VGPS and Something Else, that may leave you with plenty of breathing room to pump up the volume without compressing the sound. Unfortunately, you get shrillness intact.
Steve Hoffman blasted the 'homemade' - what that means specifically, I don't know - EQ of the post-1966 mixes and said if Audio Fidelity ever got a hold of the rights to the Kinks, it would probably be the first time we'd ever get to hear these albums with proper tonality.
Just listen the VGPS and Something Else and compare them to the earlier hits. Those earlier singles were never hi-fi to begin with but they sound a lot less shrill/tinny/grating/etc. in general. Even the good CD's, the one's that are allegedly flat transfers, have this problem because it's built into the mix.
The 1998 remasters, as mentioned, have the denoising, not sure if it's CEDAR, NoNoise, or what. Supposedly they used a Trident EQ console, just like Toby Mountain's, which is a crappy, solid-state console that really sounds like a bad, solid-state console - cold, hard, non-musical, the anti-breath of life. Add to that EQ adjustments that don't fix the problems built into the mix and in some cases make them worse, and it's a recipe for disaster. Some say there's compression problems, too, which is really unfortunate because if you were to take out the excessive high-end energy on VGPS and Something Else, that may leave you with plenty of breathing room to pump up the volume without compressing the sound. Unfortunately, you get shrillness intact.
Contrary to what I have written above, I can now confirm that "The Kinks - Greatest Hits", a PRT CD from the 1980s with the catalog number CDKINK 7251 and a pink cover without picture, has the best sounding mono mixes. (But there are only 18 tracks, 16 of them in mono. So you still need "The Kinks Are Well Respected Men" for the remaining tracks.)
This is the CD that Steve Hoffman has recommended several times. It was suggested that the Complete Collection had the same mastering, but this is far from true.
"Greatest Hits" has full rich bass comparable to the Ultimate Collection (but without the aggressive mastering), and a clarity that is comparable to "The Kinks Are Well Respected Men" without sounding as bright and thin. All in all, much better and more pleasant than either of those. Compared to that , the Complete Collection sounds like from copy tapes with inferior bass and muted top end.
And for those who don't like low volume CDs...the peak levels on this CD for all the songs are between 90% and 99% (without any visible clipping)
Thanks for all the information. I can't wait to hear proper versions of these albums. The only CD I have is the '98 Face to Face, and the music makes the listening experience barely tolerable. I'm sticking with the vinyl releases for now. A friend gave me an 80's VGPS German mono vinyl re-issue, and I love it, it sounds great. Otherwise, I have vinyl US Reprise originals and the stereo Castle VGPS re-issue, which are all okay, neither good nor bad.
Maybe I should check out the latest CD deluxe remasters. What do you all think are the best efforts on those?
Maybe I should check out the latest CD deluxe remasters. What do you all think are the best efforts on those?
You can check out MP3s of that Kinks Greatest Hits CD here: http://lukpac.org/mp3/kinks/
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Crummy Old Label Avatar
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Not again! I must be the only person on the internet who has owned (and actually listened to) original UK vinyl of the Kinks. Have any of you ever heard what these things sound like on vinyl? Pye pressing and all?
You are asking for something that these recordings are not. Shrill, thin, etc. -- that's how these things were originally recorded and mixed. They are what they are, just like Charlie Patton and Robert Johnson shellac recordings have their characteristics and artifacts.
Is everyone basing their assessments on valid comparisons and experiences, or simply on what they wish these recordings sounded like? Having been familiar with the original vinyl (granted, not always in the best of shape -- they were all salvaged from used bins for dirt cheap), the Essential CDs sound just fine to me, and the Deluxe VGPS is as good as that record is going to sound, period. I personally think that they cleaned up the Deluxe VGPS a bit too much in places, but that's just my preferences speaking. If you're expecting great sonic revelations from the Deluxe VGPS as compared to the US Reprise CD, you're going to be disappointed. (Overall, I do think the Deluxe edition is the best one, though.)
You are asking for something that these recordings are not. Shrill, thin, etc. -- that's how these things were originally recorded and mixed. They are what they are, just like Charlie Patton and Robert Johnson shellac recordings have their characteristics and artifacts.
Is everyone basing their assessments on valid comparisons and experiences, or simply on what they wish these recordings sounded like? Having been familiar with the original vinyl (granted, not always in the best of shape -- they were all salvaged from used bins for dirt cheap), the Essential CDs sound just fine to me, and the Deluxe VGPS is as good as that record is going to sound, period. I personally think that they cleaned up the Deluxe VGPS a bit too much in places, but that's just my preferences speaking. If you're expecting great sonic revelations from the Deluxe VGPS as compared to the US Reprise CD, you're going to be disappointed. (Overall, I do think the Deluxe edition is the best one, though.)
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Hell yeah, Steve made that clear, crappy home-made EQ, especially when you get to the more 'conceptual' albums. "Something Else" is the worst of them, real tinny sounding, but the Essentials still have a shot of compression and an extra-hard glaze from that crappy Trident EQ console. Had DCC released them, we would've got tube mastering with EQ for correct tonality, i.e. a whole crap load of top and upper-midrange pulled out.
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Crummy Old Label Avatar
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MK wrote:Hell yeah, Steve made that clear, crappy home-made EQ, especially when you get to the more 'conceptual' albums. "Something Else" is the worst of them, real tinny sounding, but the Essentials still have a shot of compression and an extra-hard glaze from that crappy Trident EQ console. Had DCC released them, we would've got tube mastering with EQ for correct tonality, i.e. a whole crap load of top and upper-midrange pulled out.
And Hoffman's patented tube-o-phonic distortion and midrange boost added. "Correct tonality"? That's questionable. Some may prefer the Hoffman treatment, but I don't. Pick your poison.
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Not me. Is that compulsory?Crummy Old Label Avatar wrote:Have any of you ever heard what these things sound like on vinyl? Pye pressing and all?
That is well-known and obvious.Shrill, thin, etc. -- that's how these things were originally recorded and mixed. They are what they are, just like Charlie Patton and Robert Johnson shellac recordings have their characteristics and artifacts.
Comparisons. CD versus CD.Is everyone basing their assessments on valid comparisons and experiences, or simply on what they wish these recordings sounded like?
The PRT CDs are better. Does that mean they sound better than vinyl? And if so, would that be wrong?Having been familiar with the original vinyl (granted, not always in the best of shape -- they were all salvaged from used bins for dirt cheap), the Essential CDs sound just fine to me
I personally think that the PRT CD sounds better (stereo mix), but that's just my preferences speaking.and the Deluxe VGPS is as good as that record is going to sound, period. I personally think that they cleaned up the Deluxe VGPS a bit too much in places, but that's just my preferences speaking.
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(Overall, I do think the Deluxe edition is the best one, though.)