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I've heard rumors over the years that the reason this has never been issued on CD was because the original tape was worn out/damaged/etc. After finally hearing it, though, I really have to wonder if somebody just decided they didn't like it and wanted a new mix. It's not bad (and is pretty interesting), but there are clearly some strange things about it. The difference in sound between the band's playing and the orchestra really sticks out, more than I've ever heard before. And in many places the band is mainly mono, while the orchestra is stereo.

Of course, I don't have the "regular" mix handy to compare, so I could just be going crazy, but the general sound seems quite different from what I remember.

Do you have the vinyl, or a CD rip?

I have the vinyl, and to me it seems to gel okay, although it still sounds a little incoherent compared to the official CD remix. I think part of the problem is the variance in fidelity during recording between the orchestra and the band. The orchestra parts sound lovely and suitably hi-fi, but the rock stuff sounds mostly like fourth-generation tapes, and the drums sound anemic. It's definitely worth a listen to hear the different mix, but I'm unable to say which version I like better.

I need to break out the remix again, it's been several years.

I've got a NM US Deram LP. I made a quick and dirty CD-R of it, and other than some inner groove distortion in the crescendos on Nights In White Satin, it sounds really good.

Yes, 100% agreement here on the differences between the band and the orchestra. The orchestra sounds *very* good, while the band just kind of sounds like a typical '60s British pop recording in many places. Like I said, it seems to me this difference isn't as striking on the remix, going from memory, anyway.

Was there a unique mono mix to this album? Or was it just a fold-down of the stereo?

"Nights" and "Tuesday" apparently have official CD sources on some Moodies compilation, so if "Nights" is giving you a problem you can always sub it back in.

I had always heard the remix described as an orchestral album featuring rock music, wehreas the original mix was a rock album featuring an orchestra.

BTW, Luke, re indexing: is getting the indexing exactly right that important? The few CDRs I have of the album that I've made always go with the "more is more" approach, indexing every major transition between song segments. Why? Because sometimes you just want to go right into "Peak Hour."

I agree, the remix (from my memory) integrates the band and orchestra better. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending upon your persuasion) it also buries the mellotron on some songs and removes a couple of nice vocal parts. But, the drums do sound considerably better on the remix.

I don't know for sure, but I believe the mono mix is most likely true mono. I'm assuming that because 1. it was released in 1967 and 2. mint mono copies are very expensive according to Goldmine. Just a hunch, I would like to know for sure, as I've been looking for a mono copy for a long time now. I haven't bought from Ebay due to the high prices.

I did notice the mellotron a lot more than I had in the past. At least in terms of "ok, that's the mellotron and *that's* the orchestra."

Any idea what CDs those are on, David? Not that this is all that important to me, but...

As far as the indexing goes, I followed the track list and the actual bands on the LP. So 7 songs total, separated by silence for side 1, etc.

Rob, contact me privately if you are interested in a CD-R.

This helps a little:

http://www.toadmail.com/~notten/FAQ-4-07.htm

Days Of Future Passed was released as a stereo album in 1967. Sometime in the early 1970s a quad mix was released, and was later used to create the dts 5.1 version which was released in 2001. There are some noticeable musical differences, like a lack of backing vocals on "Time to Get Away" and both the abruptness of the beginning of "Dawn is a Feeling" and the reduced reverb used on bridge ("Do you understand, that all over this land...") in the quad/dts mix. Also, in the quad/dts mix the "Overture" gained 25 seconds of previously edited material, and the closing gong is 8 seconds longer. However, the quad/dts mix also cuts 145 seconds from "Peak Hour" and 30 seconds from "Another Morning", compared to the original.
Due to deterioration of the original master stereo tape, a remix was performed in October 1978, and all albums and CDs released after that date, including Mobile Fidelity's, have the remixed version (except for the previously mentioned dts 5.1 release which was created from the quad mix). Although the 1978 remix has some of the characteristics of the quad mix, the quad mix was not simply mixed down to stereo. The "Overture" in 1978 remix is 5 seconds longer than in the quad/dts mix (30 seconds longer than the original); "Dawn is a Feeling" has the same musical differences noted above for the quad/dts mix, but is the same length as the original mix; "Another Morning" is 8 seconds shorter than the original (20 seconds longer than the quad/dts mix); "Peak Hour" is 13 seconds shorter than the quad/dts mix (158 seconds shorter than the original); and the closing gong is the same length as the original.

"Tuesday Afternoon" - Versions on Days Of Future Passed have the bridge ("I'm looking at myself...") with Justin's voice switching to one side of the stereo field, while the version on TitMB it switches to the other side.

"Nights in White Satin" - There are three mixes - the original mono mix done for the 7" single, a stereo mix without orchestra for the single (also found on OotW) and the version on Days Of Future Passed, which is just the stereo mix with orchestra added. Single versions exist at 3:06, 4:20 and 4:26 lengths but are all the same mix. The Moodies also recorded a Spanish-language version, called "Noches de Blanco" (aka "Noches de Seda").

Not totally sure I buy "deterioration of the original master stereo tape," but...

The original tracks are on the boxed-set, called "Time Traveler" or whatever. I think. I'm just going from memory at this point. I don't necessarily buy the deterioration story either, but it's certainly a possibility.

Realistically, someone probably listened to the album in 1978 and decided that it was too primitive, and decided to redo it. And/or they were reissuing the album and couldn't find a good copy of the original tape.

I just downloaded the two boxed-set tracks. They do sound a bit rough, but not too different from the overall fidelity of the original LP. I'll give them a more in-depth audition tomororw (I can throw those and the "This Is" remixed tracks up online if you want).

-D

I'm still looking for a nice mono edition of the Lp, which is probably a special mono mix, if the mono singles are any indicator.

When the Quad mix was being made, obviously the band and/or their producer(Tony Clarke, the '6th Moody')felt that improvements could be made to the original stereo mix, which has more bass and less top end than the remix, which is a more 'clear' and open mix.

On Deram US vinyl, you have to be careful, because the transition from the original mix to the remix was done quietly, and you may have to play any copies you encounter to be sure you're getting what you want(the differences on a few songs is very, very obvious). FWIW, the differences heard in the Quad and stereo mixes is due to several overdubs made at the time of the original mixing, but apparently those parts are lost(the reason LOST CHORD was not mixed to Quad, as the other 'original 7' albums were, was because too many overdubs are lost, and no reasonable multi-channel, or even stereo mix, can be made). The Quad mix also has a few passages extended, and the transitions from one song to the next occasionally don't quite line up, but that said, it's a fun mix, if not the original, which is what I prefer to hear in stereo. WHY DOFP was remixed for stereo is anyone's guess. I even tried asking Hayward himself, through his web site, and although he has answered many inane and pointless fan questions, mine, AFAIK, was never addressed.

The integration of Mellotron and orchestra, for me, is jarring on all the mixes, but probably because I've been listening to this album for so long and so often. To this day, many fans and even critics mistakenly hear the 45 mix and assume that's an orchestra they're hearing, where it's only Mike Pinder's clever, innovative Mellotron work, which, even when hidden, is so ever-present the orchestra really stands out, even during NIWS, where the few little places it can be found(intro, during the bridge, and finally, as the song fades where it takes over)it seems annoying to this listener. Further, the orchestra is used a lot less than it seems at first, and mainly serves to begin the album, end it, and serve as a transitional link between songs.

What sucks is that the remix has served as the official version for so long, more revisionism. The original mix should be available. The remix has its place, but if I want remix, I'll pull the Quad/5.1, not the stereo.



ED

Ed Bishop wrote:On Deram US vinyl, you have to be careful, because the transition from the original mix to the remix was done quietly, and you may have to play any copies you encounter to be sure you're getting what you want(the differences on a few songs is very, very obvious).

Half Price Books here has at least two or three copies of the vinyl every week. Is there anyway to differentiate between the original and the remixed vinyl?

Beatlesfan03 wrote:Half Price Books here has at least two or three copies of the vinyl every week. Is there anyway to differentiate between the original and the remixed vinyl?

That's funny. That's where I picked up my copy (here in Madison).

Did Deram change labels along the way? As the remix wasn't done until something like 1978. Mine is white/brown with "Bell Sound" imprinted in the runout area.

Well, originally, there were TWO labels: the familiar brown crescent, and the 'boxed logo' label that reads 'distributed by London.' If you get the boxed logo pressing, you're guaranteed an original mix, as that label variant kind of died away around '72, and even then, I've only found it on a limited number of Deram Lp's to date. The more common brown crescent on top is usually a 1st press if the label is flat and has a black box that says 'stereo' somewhere on the label. But there are record club pressings from the time WITHOUT that stereo box, so you really have to play the damned thing to be sure of what you're getting.

In the UK, it's easier, but not by much: the DSS(Deramic Sound System)1st press is a heavier vinyl(typical of the UK), but some later UK and German pressings use the DSS label, and yet might be the remix, so it boils down to matrix numbers, but I'm not versed in that very well. One thing to remember is that the Deram pressing lasted into the late '80s, but the '80s vinyl is that flimsier stuff Polygram kept putting out, it's easy to spot and avoid.

There maybe multi-channel editions of the original 7 in the pipeline, only not sure if they're using the original Quad mixes or will remix yet again...but if they do, LOST CHORD will not be multi-channel, apparently too much is missing to make a viable 5.1 mix, or even a remixed stereo(in that regard, we should be thankful, I suppose).

ED

Ok...

Label: Dark red/orange with "DERAM" in white. No box, no London.

Side 1 run out: ZAL 8078-5 Bell Sound (all stamped, "Bell Sound" is cursive)
Side 2: ZAL 8079-4 Bell Sound (as above)

There are a few other very faint markings on each side.

I wonder how many copies the "Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey Circus Spectacular in Phase 4 Stereo" sold.

While going through an enormous pile of ICEs (Hi Xenu!), I found this in the Watchdog column in March 1998. It establishes that the original mix still exists and is in usable condition:

Paul Carr of Beverly, MA, writes, "I recently purchsed the newly remastered version of The Moody Blues' "Days Of Future Passed." The sound is a big improvement over the previous version, but I was hoping they'd use the correct mix of "Evening: Time to Get Away" this time. Instead, at 7:00 into the medley of "Tuesday Afternoon/Time To Get Away," the [vocal] harmonies are missing, just as they were on earlier CDs. But on my original LP there are harmonies through this whole section, and it makes for a big part of the song. Did they lose the original mix, or did they just use the wrong one?"

Neither, as it turns out; it was the reissue producer's choice. We contacted Bill Levenson, PolyGram's catalog chief, who tells ICE, "There are two mixes for that album, the original 1967 mix and a late-70s remix. We actually prepared [this CD reissue] with both mixes, to compare them. I had really wanted to go with the original mix, but when I played them side-by-side, there was no comparison: the second mix is better.

"All previous CDs have also had the second mix, but the digital transfer -- from the early 80s -- wasn't terribly good. Now it's a phenomenal-sounding CD. If somebody wants to compare the two mixes, we did the use the original mixes on the box set ["Time Traveler"] for "Tuesday Afternoon" and "Nights in White Satin." But the original mixes have a tendency to be darker, thicker and not as interesting."

Ryan