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Hi,

I recently got a hold of Sound + Vision for really cheap. It was done by Dr. Toby Mountain (I think that's his name) for Rykodisc, and I compared the Station to Station tracks to the RCA CD of Station to Station, the only RCA CD I have. I did this by burning the overlapping tracks from both on a single CD-RW and playing that (can't do a quick-change A/B comparison, so this made it easier).

From what I've gathered, the RCA CD's are supposed to sound like the tapes. Even though they're dubs, they're flat transfers, not poorly EQ'ed like the Rykodisc CD's, therefore superior, etc.

The RCA disc definitely sounds like a dub. One giveaway is the extra touch of reverb, most noticeable on the finger snaps on "Golden Years." There were a few conflicting reports about the bass on the Rykodisc CD's. For the most part, people said there was no bass warmth, and one, maybe a few more, claimed there was a bass boost. There is definitely no boost in the bass region, not at any frequency, so I don't know what the hell those claiming it were thinking/doing/hearing. There definitely is less bass warmth, a more synth-bass sound than a bass with overtones.

The most striking thing is the top end. The RCA CD sounds a lot brighter and grainier, and it's a night and day difference. I can hear this on my computer speakers, which aren't good. The cymbals are the best place to spot this, they sound a lot brighter.

Anyone else have any other RCA CD's? How do they sound?

They vary, really. They have a nth-gen tape sound, and some have the associated audio glitches (dropouts, etc...I believe Low is supposed to be especially bad on this count).

Many of them aren't bad, per se, but I don't think their benefits (generally good bass) outweighs the lack of high-end, low volume, etc.

I prefer the Au20s, 'tho I recognize they're not perfect.

Xenu wrote:I prefer the Au20s, 'tho I recognize they're not perfect.

Have you ever done a digital comparison to the standard versions? I'm curious if those are just another "the gold Empty Glass is better" case.

So, you're saying the gold Empty Glass is digitally the same as the current remaster?

Next you'll tell me there's no Easter Bunny. You're mean.

Ryan

I believe we've established that, yes. Ask the forum houseboy.

Thanks to David's kind gift from awhile back, I compared some Sound + Vision tracks to a few Au20 tracks burned on CD-R. It is DEFINITELY a different mastering. The Sound + Vision box from Rykodisc was done around 1990. I was able to compare them to a few other non-Au20 Rykodisc CD's I found at the same store. Real shoddy condition so I didn't buy them, but they sounded identical.

The Au20's were supposedly mastered several years later, which makes sense because they have the SBM logo on it, a process Sony didn't even use until 1992 on some classical music releases, and then later on others.

The levels are a bit louder on the Au20's. The Sound + Vision tracks were mastered at a low level, often falling very short of the 1.000 limit, and when adjusted accordingly, they nearly match the levels of the Au20's.

The Au20's have a nice bass. Still a little thin compared to the RCA's, but at touch less of the synth-bass feel.

The Au20's sound more detailed, maybe a tiny bit brighter and even harsher than the overlapping Sound + Vision tracks, which may suggest a bigger treble boost. However, it's not like the RCA Station to Station which definitely sounds a lot brighter. If I had an Au20 Station to Station, I'd expect it to sound a lot less bright than the RCA disc based on the results of what I have.

lukpac wrote:

Xenu wrote:I prefer the Au20s, 'tho I recognize they're not perfect.

Have you ever done a digital comparison to the standard versions? I'm curious if those are just another "the gold Empty Glass is better" case.

The Ryko Au20s are definitely a different transfer. While I didn't digital-null, I did compare the gold/aluminum Ziggy a while back, and they definitely *looked* different waveform-wise, IIRC.

I'd make this a project, but the problem is that I only have a few Au20s, and the only place they overlap with the Ryko aluminums is Ziggy (which I have in its wondrous anniversary incarnation, which is packaged so much better than the Virgin set it isn't even funny. Oh, and why the fuck doesn't the new hybrid SACD have the FUCKING OUTTAKES AND BONUS TRACKS? THEY FIT, YOU COCKSUCKERS).

Sorry.

Rspaight wrote:So, you're saying the gold Empty Glass is digitally the same as the current remaster?

Next you'll tell me there's no Easter Bunny. You're mean.

Ryan

Pretty much. I got some odd low-volume, high-frequency static as a result, but I think that was just CEP fucking up (or me lining 'em up one sample away, or something). They're pretty much identical, barring some timing differences.

I don't think Fang believes us.

MK wrote:Thanks to David's kind gift from awhile back, I compared some Sound + Vision tracks to a few Au20 tracks burned on CD-R. It is DEFINITELY a different mastering. The Sound + Vision box from Rykodisc was done around 1990. I was able to compare them to a few other non-Au20 Rykodisc CD's I found at the same store. Real shoddy condition so I didn't buy them, but they sounded identical.

The Au20's were supposedly mastered several years later, which makes sense because they have the SBM logo on it, a process Sony didn't even use until 1992 on some classical music releases, and then later on others.

The levels are a bit louder on the Au20's. The Sound + Vision tracks were mastered at a low level, often falling very short of the 1.000 limit, and when adjusted accordingly, they nearly match the levels of the Au20's.

The Au20's have a nice bass. Still a little thin compared to the RCA's, but at touch less of the synth-bass feel.

The Au20's sound more detailed, maybe a tiny bit brighter and even harsher than the overlapping Sound + Vision tracks, which may suggest a bigger treble boost. However, it's not like the RCA Station to Station which definitely sounds a lot brighter. If I had an Au20 Station to Station, I'd expect it to sound a lot less bright than the RCA disc based on the results of what I have.

Despite the 1990 copyrights, I'd think these would've come out at around the same time as the Zappa set, which would place em '94/'95. They certainly didn't show up in 1990, as far as I can tell.

Allegedly, they're less compressed, but of course I can't do any comparison (See my previous post).

I don't think Fang believes us.

I don't have the remaster, only the gold, so I have no reason not to. If I'd raved and drooled about how much better the gold was, though, I could see why I wouldn't.

The gold does have nifty packaging. It's the only Atlantic gold thingie I've got from that *extensive* reissue project...

Ziggy (which I have in its wondrous anniversary incarnation, which is packaged so much better than the Virgin set it isn't even funny.

Yeah, I've got that, too. I might even still have the longbox around here somewhere.

Oh, and why the fuck doesn't the new hybrid SACD have the FUCKING OUTTAKES AND BONUS TRACKS? THEY FIT, YOU COCKSUCKERS).

My thoughts exactly. I do like the 5.1 mix, though.

Ryan

Rspaight wrote:I don't have the remaster, only the gold, so I have no reason not to.

And you didn't send it!

You need it?

Here's what I've got in the way of solo stuff:

TOWNSHEND:

Who Came First - Decca LP (Gatefold, Poster)
Who Came First - Ryko CD
Rough Mix - Atco CD
Empty Glass - Atco LP
Empty Glass - Atlantic Gold CD
Chinese Eyes - Atco LP
Chinese Eyes - Atlantic Remastered CD
Uniforms - 7" Single b/w "Dance It Away"
Scoop - Atco CD
White City - Atco LP
White City - Atco CD
Give Blood - 12" Single b/w WGFA, Magic Bus Live (Deep End)
Deep End Live - Atco CD
Another Scoop - Atco LP
Another Scoop - Classic DAD
Iron Man - Atlantic CD
Iron Man Interview - Atlantic Promo LP
English Boy - Atlantic UK CD Single (Disc One only)
Psychoderelict - Atlantic CD
Psychoderelict Music Only - Atlantic CD
Live (Psy Tour) - Polygram Promo CD-i
Greatest Hits - Atlantic CD
Live - Platinum CD
Scoop 3 - Classic DAD
Oceanic Concert - Rhino CD

DALTREY:

McVicar - Polydor LP
McVicar - Polydor CD
Under A Raging Moon - Atlantic CD
Under A Raging Moon - Ten (UK) Double 7" w/ live tracks
Celebration - House Of Blues CD

ENTWISTLE:

Too Late The Hero - Atco LP
Anthology - Repertoire German CD

MOON:

Two Sides Of The Moon - Mausoleum CD

Ryan

Rspaight wrote:You need it?

A WAV of part of a track might suffice for now...

Xenu wrote:Pretty much. I got some odd low-volume, high-frequency static as a result, but I think that was just CEP fucking up (or me lining 'em up one sample away, or something). They're pretty much identical, barring some timing differences.

Must have been you fucking up, as I just did a "compare wavs" in EAC and they are identical.

EAC = inferior postcardware