Tommy: Deluxe Edition details

[lukpac]

Luke, feel like justifying my take on the Who Are You situation anytime soon?

I don't seem to have a Polydor, but I've got a (Canadian) MCA and the MoFi.

First random note - Love Is Coming Down is a different mix on the two, at least in the intro. On both versions the acoustic guitar is in the left channel, but the placement of the ride cymbal is different. On the MCA it's centered through the whole intro, but on the MoFi it's in the right channel until 0:37, where it sounds like there's an edit to the other mix. The MoFi is also a lot clearer on this song - the highs on the MCA are pretty rolled off/muddy on the MCA.

The highs are also better on the title track on the MoFi.

Most of the album, however, sounds surprisingly similar on the two CDs. After listening some more I'd say the highs are probably slightly better across the board on the MoFi. So there you go.

What's your take on the Polydor, David?

[Xenu]

My take is I totally forgot to bring it up, so I'll probably do a distinct A/B when I get home.

I've never noticed the Love is Coming Down thing, so perhaps that doesn't exist on the Polydor?

[lukpac]

Well, I wouldn't have noticed it if I wasn't switching back and forth between the two...

[lukpac]

https://www.icemagazine.com/daily/198/index.asp

In the current issue of ICE (October 2003, #199), we speak at length with The Who’s reissue producer Jon Astley about the upcoming 5.1 surround-sound version of the band’s 1969 Tommy album. Astley made a couple of points that we didn’t have room for in print, so we share them here.

The second disc of the new Tommy Deluxe Edition hybrid SACD contains five early Pete Townshend demos, for the band members to listen to before recording as a group. Among them is the classic "Pinball Wizard." For the first time ever, fans will be able to hear the complete "Pinball Wizard" as originally conceived by Townshend… although granted, just containing a redundancy.

"Interestingly enough," Astley tells ICE, "‘Pinball Wizard’ was over a minute longer on the multi-track tape, and you can hear what it’s like on this demo. They actually go back into the song’s intro [midway through the song]. They cut it out for the single [back in 1969], and then cut it out for the album version as well."

Astley says that Townshend left the extra minute intact in his initial 5.1 mix of "Pinball Wizard" for this Tommy Deluxe Edition, but ultimately everyone decided it should go. But they did leave it intact in his demo version, for all fans to hear how the song’s complete melodic flow was originally envisioned. (The "Pinball Wizard" demo on Townshend’s Another Scoop release doesn’t contain this element.)

Of course, the full length version has been available on bootleg for at least 12 years, if not longer.

[krabapple]

So someone explain to a Who nonspecialist: where the heck did these newly-reported original two-track masters for Tommy come from? I thought we'd been told that those had been *burned in a bonfire* decades ago!

[Xenu]

A bonfire of *wild pressing lust*, apparently.

[krabapple]

So, no one has heard an explanation for the discrepancy between the OLD party line and the new one, re: Tommy master tapes? (It's the reason I checked into SHtv and here yesterday in the first place, btw...I figured someone in these communities might have heard something.)

[Rspaight]

Afraid not.

The only thing I'd say (and it's pure conjecture) is that a lot of those Who stories from the late sixties/early seventies were rather, um, apocryphal.

I'll do a little reseach on this...

Ryan

[lukpac]

So, no one has heard an explanation for the discrepancy between the OLD party line and the new one, re: Tommy master tapes?

I haven't heard an explanation, but I'll offer some theories.

1) The tapes they are using aren't actually the masters, just good copies. Which may or may not have been used on past CDs.

2) They are in the fact the masters, possibly used on past CDs, but nobody in the UK bothered to search for them. It was *assumed* they were lost, and the bon fire story was one that stuck in somebody's mind.

I'd say there's a good chance it's #2. To cite a few other examples:

1969 US tour tapes - Pete has said he couldn't actually listen to all of these, so they were all burned (in a bon fire, I believe) to prevent bootlegging. Yet some *have* shown up on bootlegs, and I've heard that most/all of them were saved by Bob Pridden and are stored safely somewhere.

A Quick One multitracks - Jon Astley claimed the multitracks went down in a flood in Kit Lamber's castle in Venice. This is why (he claims) the reissued CD was in mono. Yet a few years later the multis for about half of the album were found - and used for the latest issue. It's unclear where the other half of the tapes are, but it seems fairly reasonable that the flood story was just made up (or at the very least used incorrectly) to cover Jon's ass.

[Rspaight]

I checked the Barnes (Maximum R&B), Marsh (Before I Get Old) and Kent/Neill (Anyway Anyhow Anywhere) books, and none of them seem to mention the "burning the master tapes" story.

Barnes' liner notes for the remix is the only mention I found of the bonfire. It says a first-generation copy tape was found in 1988 (which dovetails with the MFSL disc a year or so after that).

However, the Februrary 1996 issue of ICE contains a blurb about the then-forthcoming remix that contains this:

But up until now, all previous remastering was done from the two-track stereo master tape -- at best -- which dates from the late 60s. Astley's goal was to remix the album from the original multi-track masters, creating a new two-track stereo master tape, on modern equipment, that would be free of tape hiss and distortion.

No mention whatsoever of the original master being burned up.

I tend to think it's a bunch of hooey.

Ryan

PS -- Luke, Xenu -- I've got a complete set of ICEs back to June '92, which ought to come handy for the theoretical FAQ project. Lots of Watchdog items submitted by *very* familiar names...

[Xenu]

Oooh, like? Mostly Rich and Brian Cady, I assume?

BTW, Luke, were you implying that the full-length version of the *studio* Pinball Wizard has been available for 12 years?

[lukpac]

No, the demo. It's not as if we're getting the studio version now or anything...

Yes, back issues of ICE = good.

BTW, Brian Cady seemed to think that it was the *multis* that were burned, and that all remixes were done from Pete's copies made at the time for his studio. Of course, his studio was only stereo at the time (didn't quite have 8-track yet), so the tapes wouldn't have done him any good at the time.

FYI, here's the bit on the '69 live tapes:

They had recorded every show from their American tour of autumn '69. "We thought that would be where we would get the best material" said Pete. "When we got back we had 80 hours of tape. I said "Fuck that. I'm not going to sit through 80 hours of live stuff, let's face it you'd get brainwashed." So we just scrapped the lot. We put it all on the bonfire to stop bootlegging."

It seems as if MoFi would have used the masters had they been available to them.

I have to laugh at the "hiss and distortion" line. Any hiss from the 1/4" stereo tape is minimal - on the MoFi you can barely hear hiss between tracks if you try. Most of it comes from the 8-track multis, so it will be there even if you remix. And I think the distortion line was just something thrown out to make it sound like the remix would be better. I can't think of any obvious distortion on the original mix offhand.

[Rspaight]

Oooh, like? Mostly Rich and Brian Cady, I assume?

Well, just in the small flipping through I did to find the above, I ran across Larry Geller, Ron Stone, my wife, and me. (And that was just for Sell Out.) I do remember seeing Rich in there a few times. Not sure about Brian, but it wouldn't surprise me.

If we do the FAQ, I'll have to go through and make a *thorough* accounting of all this...

Ryan

[lukpac]

I know I'm in there in a few issues...