13th Floor Elevators oddity

[Xenu]

For years, I've heard that the reason most official CD releases of the 13th Floor Elevators sound so shitty is that they're poor needledrops from the original stereo LPs, which were bathed in reverb and delay to "simulate the psychedelic experience." Even reputable outlets like Shout Factory generally default to these mediocre versions. For those with little experience with the horrors of these mixes: imagine the most irritating mock stereo out there, then throw on an extra layer of digital delay.

Thankfully, that everpresent, let's-see-how-often-we-can-recycle-material 13th Floor Elevators fan group circulated rips of the mono LPs. Unfortunately, they're pretty overprocessed...but at least listenable, unlike the original stereo LPs...

...or so I thought. On a lark, I downloaded the group's "Attack of the LPs" rips, which purport to be rips of the original stereo LPs. I had put off grabbing them, figuring that they were just better transfers of the same, headache-inducing semi-mock-stereo I'd been hearing for years. To my astonishment, though, they're nothing of the sort...the original LPs don't reveal any of that mock stereo effect you hear on the CDs.

(By the way, a random aside: the 13FE group claims that the 8-track iterations are yet further alternate mixes. This doesn't seem to be the case...stereo placement seems to be the same, although the guy who did the transfer seemingly inverted the stereo spread at some point)


So this leads to the obvious question: where the heck did the abomination on the CD versions come from?

A quick sample for those unfamiliar with the Elevators in general. I won't have to tell you which parts are from the LP source (not a great rip, but at least it isn't overprocessed like the mono LP rip) and which are from the Fuel 2000 "Absolutely the Best" CD.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/dj5eau

[lukpac]

I don't think the "bad" version is as horrible as you think it is, but it is kind of odd. Sounds like an attempt at a more modern remix...

[Xenu]

I don't think it can be, though, because the multitracks are lost. What it sounds like is the stereo mix, folded in significantly, with a bizarre delay attached to both channels. It's the delay that really bothers me; especially in headphones, it's incredibly disorienting.

[lukpac]

Who said the multitracks are lost?

It would be easier if I could hear the same parts from both sources, but the CD mix has the "gurgling" sound center-right, while the LP mix has it hard left. Yet the drums are roughly center-right on both. And the vocal tracks seems fairly distinct on both.

If not a modern remix, it at least seems like an alternate vintage mix. Based on your clip anyway.

[Xenu]

I don't know if they're lost in the "totally gone" sense, but I think they're lost in the "nobody's ever bothered using them" sense. Also, the very odd characters at the Texas Psych group claim to have the Easter Everywhere 8-track.

It still sounds to me like the older mix, but futzed around with and with an extra layer of stereo-spectrum delay. I'll post a simpler clip later.

[lukpac]

I'd say it comes down to the discrete elements. That "gurgling" sound is clearly on one side or the other. Ditto for the vocals (check out the stray "I" at 0:16). If everything is in the same place relative to everything else, then it's possible that there's just delay added. But if, say two things are on the left in one mix and one's on the right in another mix, they are totally different mixes...

[Xenu]

Right. But on the CD "mix," it sounds like things that should be in one channel also show up in the other. I think combination fold-down and delay could get you from point A to point B.

[lukpac]

Like I said, it's hard to say without hearing the same bits in both versions. Having the channels apparently reversed doesn't help either.

[Xenu]

Earthquake sample:

http://download.yousendit.com/2A57B24C73058BD6

Absolutely the Best version first, LP second (LP has been normalized and channel-swapped, but is otherwise unfutzed with). I find this track to be slightly less objectionable than Levitation--less crazy echoing!--so comparisons are easier.

[Chris M]

I don't know if they're lost in the "totally gone" sense, but I think they're lost in the "nobody's ever bothered using them" sense. Also, the very odd characters at the Texas Psych group claim to have the Easter Everywhere 8-track.

It still sounds to me like the older mix, but futzed around with and with an extra layer of stereo-spectrum delay. I'll post a simpler clip later.

Odd characters indeed. I've wanted to get into the Elevators for ages. I got needledrops on the first 2 albums from Texas Psych a few years ago but they had massive amounts of processing. I stumbled upon a blog recently that had Easter Everywhere and it sounded much better. I was really blown away at how good the album is. Stacy Sutherland was a fantastic guitar player. I guess the Attack of the LP's set is a more recent Texas Psych distro?

I've never understood Texas Psych's claim about having the Easter Everywhere 8 tracks. First, there is no way those sessions were 8 track. Not for a small label in Texas in early 1967.

I've read that someone has the mixdown reel of the stereo Dust as it has appeared in excellent quality on a few comps. Supposedly much better quality than anything else on the album.

[Chris M]

Who said the multitracks are lost?

It would be easier if I could hear the same parts from both sources, but the CD mix has the "gurgling" sound center-right, while the LP mix has it hard left. Yet the drums are roughly center-right on both. And the vocal tracks seems fairly distinct on both.

If not a modern remix, it at least seems like an alternate vintage mix. Based on your clip anyway.

That gurgling is a jug. See below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfcHgk10 ... re=related

[Xenu]

I guess the Attack of the LP's set is a more recent Texas Psych distro?

I would think so, as it's in FLAC (whereas most of the older material is SHN). It certainly sounds leagues above even the recent mono-LP needledrops, although it isn't perfect...kinda noisy, kinda trebly.

[lukpac]

Earthquake sample:

http://download.yousendit.com/2A57B24C73058BD6

Absolutely the Best version first, LP second (LP has been normalized and channel-swapped, but is otherwise unfutzed with). I find this track to be slightly less objectionable than Levitation--less crazy echoing!--so comparisons are easier.

Yeah, that one sounds like it could be a processed version of the original.

I've never understood Texas Psych's claim about having the Easter Everywhere 8 tracks. First, there is no way those sessions were 8 track. Not for a small label in Texas in early 1967.

Maybe it's just a well mixed track, but Earthquake sounds like it very well may be from more than 4 tracks.

[JWB]

How rare are the Elevators LP's? I'm tempted to pick them up and drop them myself...

[Xenu]

No idea. Lord knows I've never seen an original. Maybe they're more common the closer you get to Texas?