See Emily Play

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JWB
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Postby JWB » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:42 am

barrympls wrote: Wow....(I gotta get that book), but I always thought that EMI was one of the few huge companies that took pride in maintaining all of their tapes. Think of it; only 4 Beatles tracks' multis are no longer available (Love Me Do, P.S. I Love You, She Loves You and I'll Get You). All of the rest of 'em are there. I have never heard any horror stories about The Hollies masters, either.


On the contrary. EMI Abbey Road are notorious for destroying tapes. They would erase the mutli-tracks as soon as a project was finished and they did it often. All of the multis for "Piper At The Gates Of Dawn" are gone. Luckily, the multis from the "Saucerful" sessions are still there. And as Luke said, the work parts for the first two Beatles albums are gone as well, though the final "mutlis" which are really just stereo tapes, still survive. The reason they stopped erasing Beatles multi-tracks was because someone put out a "do not destroy" order at some point.

barrympls wrote:As regards Joe Boyd, it's common knowledge that Boyd was producing Pink Floyd and between the first and second single, prior to the first LP, the decision was made to replace Boyd with Norman Smith, who was an EMI staff producer. I read back when Boyd had the Hannibal label that he had the multi-tracks for "Arnold Layne", "Candy And A Currant Bun" and a handful of early versions of tracks that ended up on the album. I've also heard that "Candy..." was originally recorded as "Let's Roll Another One" and EMI nixed that.


That's interesting. Joe Boyd was interviewed for the Random Precision book and there is no mention made of the mutli-tracks. As far as the author knows, those tapes are missing or destroyed. There is a multi-track tape in the Abbey Road archive from the session but it's contents are unknown. The author didn't attempt to get permission to hear the tapes. Why, I dont know...

Chris M
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Postby Chris M » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:26 pm

The Beatles were really a special case. EMI bulk erased or threw out many multitracks in the mid 60's including the Pretty Things, Floyd, and The Zombies. We're lucky that so many 1967 Floyd session tapes survive. Most of the post Piper stuff with Syd is in the vault.

You would love the Random Precision book. It's a Lewisohn style book that documents all of the Syd recordings sessions (both solo and w/ PF). He even lists every reel (w/ reel #) that is in the vault at EMI. There is lots of interesting Jugband era stuff that has never been released. The Piper multitracks are gone though. Some alternate mono mixes from those sessions survive including a early version of Matilda that pre-dates the edits that were done for the LP version. This is interesting as everything after the point where the first edit is will be unheard stuff (including Syd vocals..)

Boyd doesn't have any Floyd tapes or footage. He did lose a tape of Syd playing a bunch of original songs that PF never recorded. Syd made this tape so Boyd would shop it to other artists and somehow Boyd lost it.

EMI didn't reject Let's Roll Another One (or any other PF material for that matter). That was just an act of self-censorship. BTW, Boyd only produced 4 PF tracks. The early Interstellar Overdrive (on London '66-'67), Nick's Boogie, Candy and Arnold. As JWB said one 4 track tape from the Arnold/Candy session survives but we don't know what is on it. I would think that it is missing some final elements. I'd still love to hear it though..\

I don't think that Waters would be that opposed to a release of Syd era rarities. I have an interview with Waters from a few years ago and he tells the interviewer that he thinks Veg Man was a stroke of genius and that it was released on "some compilation". I think that people are just scared to ask him if he wants to release that stuff. I doubt Rick cares one way or the other. My hunch is that Mason might be the problem as his vocals on Scream are a source of embarrassment..
Last edited by Chris M on Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I've had 40 years experience with hearing tape and vinyl. I was recording tapes before you were born" - Grant

Chris M
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Postby Chris M » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:30 pm

lukpac wrote:
barrympls wrote:Think of it; only 4 Beatles tracks' multis are no longer available (Love Me Do, P.S. I Love You, She Loves You and I'll Get You). All of the rest of 'em are there.


No, that's just what wasn't mixed to stereo (and in the case of LMD/PSILY, recorded twin-track). A lot of the PPM session tapes no longer exist, and all but one of the WTB session tapes are gone.

Not that it really relates to Pink Floyd, but...


There are a couple of offline recordings of an early version(s) of both Please Mr. Postman and It' Won't Be Long that circulate. I've never heard them but the quality is said to be decent..
"I've had 40 years experience with hearing tape and vinyl. I was recording tapes before you were born" - Grant

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JWB
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Postby JWB » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:40 pm

Chris M wrote:Most of the post Piper stuff with Syd is in the vault.


You mean NOT in the vault...it's the Saucerful stuff that still exists.

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Postby lukpac » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:11 pm

JWB wrote:
Chris M wrote:Most of the post Piper stuff with Syd is in the vault.


You mean NOT in the vault...it's the Saucerful stuff that still exists.


He said *post* Piper.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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JWB
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Postby JWB » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:13 pm

FUCK, my eyes are playing tricks on me...

barrympls
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Postby barrympls » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:37 pm

Chris M wrote:You would love the Random Precision book. It's a Lewisohn style book that documents all of the Syd recordings sessions (both solo and w/ PF). He even lists every reel (w/ reel #) that is in the vault at EMI. There is lots of interesting Jugband era stuff that has never been released. The Piper multitracks are gone though. Some alternate mono mixes from those sessions survive including a early version of Matilda that pre-dates the edits that were done for the LP version. This is interesting as everything after the point where the first edit is will be unheard stuff (including Syd vocals..)

Boyd doesn't have any Floyd tapes or footage. He did lose a tape of Syd playing a bunch of original songs that PF never recorded. Syd made this tape so Boyd would shop it to other artists and somehow Boyd lost it.

EMI didn't reject Let's Roll Another One (or any other PF material for that matter). That was just an act of self-censorship. BTW, Boyd only produced 4 PF tracks. The early Interstellar Overdrive (on London '66-'67), Nick's Boogie, Candy and Arnold. As JWB said one 4 track tape from the Arnold/Candy session survives but we don't know what is on it. I would think that it is missing some final elements. I'd still love to hear it though..\

I don't think that Waters would be that opposed to a release of Syd era rarities. I have an interview with Waters from a few years ago and he tells the interviewer that he thinks Veg Man was a stroke of genius and that it was released on "some compilation". I think that people are just scared to ask him if he wants to release that stuff. I doubt Rick cares one way or the other. My hunch is that Mason might be the problem as his vocals on Scream are a source of embarrassment..


Thanx....I stand corrected. I will order the book.

I do wish that EMI/Capitol would release all the known Syd/PF stuff on a nice two-CD set....once and for all....and they could end it with the odd singles-only tracks (It Would Be So Nice/Julia Dream/Point Me At The Sky/Careful With That Axe, Eugene). It would like mad.

I know the mono Piper is highly prized (both on vinyl and for the now out of print CD), but I still prefer the stereo mix. PF WERE a stereo band, for Christ sake.

--------------------
On a related note about EMI's vaults, since people in the UK are so against any first time stereo mixing of "original" mono masters, I guess that the extent of surviving multi-track tapes in EMI's vaults have not been fully talked about. Only Ace has taken up making "first time" stereo mixes....and it was for the wonderful Zombies anthology (who were on Decca and recorded at their studio, but their tapes were always the property of Marquis Productions....)

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Postby Chris M » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:48 am

I like the stereo mix better with 2 (big) exceptions, Lucifer Sam and Pow R Toc H. The panning in the stereo Lucifer is a little over the top. I still enjoy it though. The stereo Pow R is awful. There is nothing going on in one channel for half the song and some guitar bits are missing.
"I've had 40 years experience with hearing tape and vinyl. I was recording tapes before you were born" - Grant

barrympls
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Postby barrympls » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:48 pm

Chris M wrote:I like the stereo mix better with 2 (big) exceptions, Lucifer Sam and Pow R Toc H. The panning in the stereo Lucifer is a little over the top. I still enjoy it though. The stereo Pow R is awful. There is nothing going on in one channel for half the song and some guitar bits are missing.


That panning is suppose to help you trip out, man.