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lukpac wrote:The echo thing just bugs me.

Really? I couldn't tell from your posts.

Here's what Hoffman said about Die Beatles. In one post he said:

Less echo because the EQ and COMPRESSED LP CUTTING MASTER was bypassed and the flat tape was used. Yes, it has 'verb on it, of course, but nothing like the British cutting reel...

In another

The UK Parlophone stereos were cut from a "limited and equalized" tape dub and sounds much more compressed and thin. The radical compression really makes the echo stand out more. The German "Die Beatles", etc. use a flat tape copy made from the original Parlophone twin-tracks without EQ and compression (except of course for the LOVE ME DO and P.S. I LOVE YOU turkeys). It sounds much better. Trust me on this. First time I heard "I Saw Her Standing There" on it it my jaw fell open..

So I guess no echo was added, it is merely more prominent on one. But then again Luke is saying there isn't really a difference.

Whatever, I don't have the necessary copies to make a track-for-track comparison...

BTW, on the MFSL stereo version, there's a little bit of a bleed-through across channels. Is it just impossible to get complete separation on vinyl, or is this a result of the master having something done to it? If it's something done to the master, was it something MFSL did, or was it something inherent in the master? (And if it's something inherent in the master, the original Parlophone LP's should have the same bleed-through too, right? They supposedly use the same tape, correct?)

Listen to my clips...

As for the "bleed", I'm guessing you're just hearing the echo. The echo return apparently came back in mono, so while the vocals themselves would only be in the right channel, the echo would come back in the left channel as well. Notice that if you listen to just the left channel on most of the album, the vocal "bleed" is delayed a bit.

Looks like in addition to the "DISQUE AMERIC" pressings, Cinram pressings (of Help, anyway) use the original mixes as well.

lukpac wrote:The reason they jumped on you about it being a 'fold down' is the actual mono edit/mix of the title track was used, rather than the stereo edit/mix. That and the mono masters were prepared by using the session tapes, rather than the stereo mix tapes.

In addition, I think that the intro to "Misery" differs slightly between versions.

I've never compared, but Brennan does say that.

As does Sulpy.

Is Sulpy still around, BTW? The 910 site seems...dead?

I compared the Ebbetts "Die Beatles" to the Ebbetts MFSL "Please Please Me"...and I can't tell the fucking difference...some tracks have a different stereo balance...and the MFSL is actually wider...that's it!

He had to have re-EQ'd one or the other then, as the EQ is totally different.

Have you listened to my xfer?

lukpac wrote:He had to have re-EQ'd one or the other then, as the EQ is totally different.

Oh yeah, the EQ is different. It just doesn't sound much different in terms of reverb and compression and general sound quality (and the waveforms looked very similar too). Maybe I just can't spot the compression. I couldn't say that I preferred one over the other, though as I mentioned, the MFSL is wider! I'm about to grab his BC-13 transfers and then I'll do a more detailed analysis.

Listening to Rubber Soul now. At this point in the game I wouldn't call it a revelation, but it's quite good. A bit thin next to my German LP, but pretty good on its own. The source certainly seems to be good - hiss isn't excessive, and I haven't noticed any dropouts or other tape flaws.

I haven't yet done an A/B with the remix CD; I'm interested in seeing how much of the difference is EQ and how much is the mix.

Just a random note about the mixes - odd how a track like Think For Yourself has the vocals nicely split between the channels, while Nowhere Man has them all crammed into the right channel. Some tracks have the backing/harmony vocals in the left channel, yet others don't.

lukpac wrote:Listening to Rubber Soul now. At this point in the game I wouldn't call it a revelation, but it's quite good. A bit thin next to my German LP, but pretty good on its own. The source certainly seems to be good - hiss isn't excessive, and I haven't noticed any dropouts or other tape flaws.

Luke,

Nowhere Man has a few glitches in the left channel (at 0:32, 0:41 and 1:05). Maybe that's what convinced GM to remix it??

rivero wrote:Nowhere Man has a few glitches in the left channel (at 0:32, 0:41 and 1:05). Maybe that's what convinced GM to remix it??

Perhaps, although I'm not sure if he was concerned with such minutia. I think perhaps it was more "I can, so I will". Interesting that while the remix doesn't have some of these small errors, it has much bigger problems, like not riding the piano on Drive My Car.

I guess this probably belongs in the Capitol Albums thread but with all this Die Beatles talk I guess I'll post it here.

Ted Jensen's Early Beatles. Check out Twist And Shout for some *extreme* compression. Look at the waveform and it's peaking at 100% almost all the time. Listen to the right channel only - the intro - and you're hearing the vocal mic leakage *really loud*. Then feel the smack at "Well shake it up baby now".....! Some really heavy processing. If you want a really dynamic version from tape there's no way you'll find it here.

Baby It's You and others are noticably more dynamic however. I'm guessing Capital did this processing originally and it's not Ted J turning things up. I say this because I've never heard the US LPs. Something's definitely going on (and I don't mean the EQ) as the Capitol versions in general are noticably more compressed than the UK CDs.

If you're bored, get the Red Album CD version of Eight Days A Week. Now try and make it sound like the Capitol version. Yes you'll have to play with the EQ - you'll also have to compress (and perhaps slightly hard limit) it to get it close.

Frustrating.

Tom Stroud wrote:Ted Jensen's Early Beatles. Check out Twist And Shout for some *extreme* compression. Look at the waveform and it's peaking at 100% almost all the time. Listen to the right channel only - the intro - and you're hearing the vocal mic leakage *really loud*. Then feel the smack at "Well shake it up baby now".....! Some really heavy processing. If you want a really dynamic version from tape there's no way you'll find it here.

I don't yet have Vol 2, but there's some pretty serious compression on Die Beatles as well - there was a lot in the recording. I just listened to Phil's clip, and it doesn't sound drastically different to me.