Canadian Beatles CDs

Just what the name says.
Tom Stroud
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Postby Tom Stroud » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:06 pm

Fair point. I'm surprised at how compressed Die Beatles is...

Even so I'd argue it's still been "punched up" somewhere along the line. The vinyl sounds a bit more open with some room to breathe. Level match the two and the vinyl levels vary a bit during the song whereas the CD is pretty damn constant.

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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:17 pm

Tom Stroud wrote:Fair point. I'm surprised at how compressed Die Beatles is...

Even so I'd argue it's still been "punched up" somewhere along the line. The vinyl sounds a bit more open with some room to breathe. Level match the two and the vinyl levels vary a bit during the song whereas the CD is pretty damn constant.


The EQ is certainly very "relaxed" on Die Beatles. Like most of the German LPs. I didn't think the EQ was *that* different on Phil's clip, but in general the EQ on those Jensen discs is, as you say, "punched up".
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

Phil Elliott
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Postby Phil Elliott » Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:58 pm

Has Rubber Soul actually shown up online? I was just curious as to where (or who) you got it from :)

I have got "Help!", and there's no doubt this has come from Abbey Road. I've noticed a slightly flat character that also bugs me on the Revolver and Pepper CDs; certainly EQ'able though, so other than that it's nice to have. I would have paid money for this officially; instead the remix of Rubber Soul put me off what was actually on offer back in the day.

And I'm not too fussed about twin track style mixes where Rubber Soul is concerned. As long as the balance is ok, I just accept them for what they are - then again I heard the original stereo many years back when it was the only version in print. I've enjoyed having it on Capitol Albums 2 so far, but prefer the UK lineup...
"If you knew what I was thinking you'd BE me."

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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:23 pm

Phil Elliott wrote:Has Rubber Soul actually shown up online? I was just curious as to where (or who) you got it from :)


Not online to my knowledge. Don't want to expose my source, but they can certainly come forward here if they want to.

I have got "Help!", and there's no doubt this has come from Abbey Road. I've noticed a slightly flat character that also bugs me on the Revolver and Pepper CDs; certainly EQ'able though, so other than that it's nice to have. I would have paid money for this officially; instead the remix of Rubber Soul put me off what was actually on offer back in the day.


Considering Capitol Canada apparently never issued the UK Rubber Soul, you're probably right. It couldn't have been a compilation from the various US albums, as The Word is the UK mix.

And I'm not too fussed about twin track style mixes where Rubber Soul is concerned. As long as the balance is ok, I just accept them for what they are - then again I heard the original stereo many years back when it was the only version in print. I've enjoyed having it on Capitol Albums 2 so far, but prefer the UK lineup...


For the most part I find them annoying, but they are what they are, and the remix really isn't any better. Otherwise they are pretty good.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

Phil Elliott
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Postby Phil Elliott » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:27 pm

lukpac wrote:Not online to my knowledge. Don't want to expose my source, but they can certainly come forward here if they want to.


Fair play. I did decide to pm the question instead of post in public like I was about to. Then I forgot :roll:
"If you knew what I was thinking you'd BE me."

JamieGillis
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Postby JamieGillis » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:44 am

I think the Canadian Rubber Soul is on oink. There is a Beatles discography torrent uploaded by a Canadian guy. The log has different peak values from my remix cd, and Run For Your Life has the click. I didn't check Help!, I already grabbed it from usenet.

http://oink.me.uk/details.php?id=527012

EAC extraction logfile from 18. April 2006, 15:49 for CD
The Beatles / Rubber Soul

Used drive : SAMSUNG DVD-ROM SD-616E Adapter: 2 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, NO disable cache
Read offset correction : 12
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\flac.exe (User Defined Encoder)
128 kBit/s
Additional command line options : -V -8 -T "artist=%a" -T "title=%t" -T "album=%g" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n" -T "genre=%m" %s

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000


Track 1
Filename L:\My Torrents\01 - Drive My Car.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.42

Peak level 83.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 5FFCB350
Copy CRC 5FFCB350
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename L:\My Torrents\02 - Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown).wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:04.06

Peak level 87.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC A8593622
Copy CRC A8593622
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename L:\My Torrents\03 - You Won't See Me.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:04.70

Peak level 72.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2F5EC9A2
Copy CRC 2F5EC9A2
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename L:\My Torrents\04 - Nowhere Man.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:03.84

Peak level 73.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 0B4156F3
Copy CRC 0B4156F3
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename L:\My Torrents\05 - Think For Yourself.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:04.40

Peak level 82.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC C3DD0FBA
Copy CRC C3DD0FBA
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename L:\My Torrents\06 - The Word.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:04.20

Peak level 84.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1516EED0
Copy CRC 1516EED0
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename L:\My Torrents\07 - Michelle.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:04.60

Peak level 47.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 3CEFEF74
Copy CRC 3CEFEF74
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename L:\My Torrents\08 - What Goes On.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.66

Peak level 87.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 66F0C24E
Copy CRC 66F0C24E
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename L:\My Torrents\09 - Girl.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:04.76

Peak level 80.6 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 59D32382
Copy CRC 59D32382
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename L:\My Torrents\10 - I'm Looking Through You.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:03.70

Peak level 90.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 29806A4C
Copy CRC 29806A4C
Copy OK

Track 11
Filename L:\My Torrents\11 - In My Life.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:03.90

Peak level 76.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC CCD7F8BA
Copy CRC CCD7F8BA
Copy OK

Track 12
Filename L:\My Torrents\12 - Wait.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:04.32

Peak level 77.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 43467608
Copy CRC 43467608
Copy OK

Track 13
Filename L:\My Torrents\13 - If I Needed Someone.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:04.34

Peak level 78.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC AFB0C281
Copy CRC AFB0C281
Copy OK

Track 14
Filename L:\My Torrents\14 - Run For Your Life.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:04.05

Peak level 77.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC F5ED5B0F
Copy CRC F5ED5B0F
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

rivero
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Postby rivero » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:03 am

Phil Elliott wrote:Has Rubber Soul actually shown up online?


Try the following links. Admiteddly, they are compressed (192 kps WMA), but it's a lot less hassle (for me) than having to split uncompressed files into bite-size pieces to put on Usenet. I'll leave that to someone else :lol:

Drive My Car:
http://download.yousendit.com/ABCAC60C18675163

Norwegian Wood:
http://download.yousendit.com/21F7F6232C96D95F

You Won't See Me:
http://download.yousendit.com/C46B878C2EDA63EA

Nowhere Man:
http://download.yousendit.com/DD813B3B058CC13D

Think For Yourself:
http://download.yousendit.com/10CB66DC2C84E62A

The Word:
http://download.yousendit.com/7C73BA496B2593BF

Michelle:
http://download.yousendit.com/F4C884EE01AC58D1

What Goes On:
http://download.yousendit.com/7D851BF137688D55

Girl:
http://download.yousendit.com/0A4575B07B5E450F

I'm Looking Through You:
http://download.yousendit.com/BD77E4996701057E

In My Life:
http://download.yousendit.com/E277C70519F5C1B5

Wait:
http://download.yousendit.com/1C0A48FC6954FD95

If I Needed Someone:
http://download.yousendit.com/C4AE3701193B4414

Run For Your Life:
http://download.yousendit.com/38D55A970091A4CA

Phil Elliott
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Postby Phil Elliott » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:36 am

Thanks a lot Jamie & rivero; this gets me up and running.

BitTorrent is in experimental mode here. I don't think my ISP likes it; the WMAs are great though - thanks again.
"If you knew what I was thinking you'd BE me."

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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:45 am

A couple of things...

I compared the Canadian RS to the remix last night. Levels were almost an exact match, and the EQ was pretty close too. Thus it made a good comparison of the mix differences, rather than mastering differences. I still think the original mix is a bit more natural sounding, but maybe that's just me. I might get some clips together.

Also, Brennan notes this for Think For Yourself:

THINK FOR YOURSELF
basic recording- 8 Nov 1965
additional recording- 8 Nov 1965
master tape- 4 track

* [a] mono 9 Nov 1965
UK: Parlophone PMC 1267 Rubber Soul 1965.
US: Capitol T 2442 Rubber Soul 1965.

* [b] stereo 9 Nov 1965
UK: Parlophone PCS 3075 Rubber Soul 1965.
US: Capitol ST 2442 Rubber Soul 1965.

* [c] stereo 1987
CD: EMI CDP 7 46440 2 Rubber Soul 1987.


Lewisohn notes that it was done in a single take with overdubs, and doesn't mention any reduction mixes. However, I listened to the YS songtrack briefly last night, and it seems as if there may have been a reduction. Here's the original stereo mix:

1 - backing (left)
2 - lead guitar, organ, percussion (right)
3 - vocal 1 (left)
4 - vocal 2 (right)

On the YS mix, things seem to break down thusly:

1 - backing (center)
2 - lead guitar (right)
3 - vocal 1 (alternates between left-center and left)
4 - vocal 2 (alternates between right-center and right)
5 - percussion (right-center?)

I don't recall offhand where the organ ended up. Anyway, it *seems* like they would have had to have used at least 5 tracks for the YS remix. Which means there's a take Lewisohn didn't account for.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

JamieGillis
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Postby JamieGillis » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:19 am

I compared the wma files that rivero posted to the version on oink, and they're the same. The one on oink is the Canadian :D

Didn't get a chance to compare Help, but if it's the remix, I'll seed the original mix on oink.

(I have 4 oink invites, but I don't know if they're taking new members right now)

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JWB
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Postby JWB » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:40 am

lukpac wrote:Lewisohn notes that it was done in a single take with overdubs, and doesn't mention any reduction mixes. However, I listened to the YS songtrack briefly last night, and it seems as if there may have been a reduction. Here's the original stereo mix:

1 - backing (left)
2 - lead guitar, organ, percussion (right)
3 - vocal 1 (left)
4 - vocal 2 (right)

On the YS mix, things seem to break down thusly:

1 - backing (center)
2 - lead guitar (right)
3 - vocal 1 (alternates between left-center and left)
4 - vocal 2 (alternates between right-center and right)
5 - percussion (right-center?)

I don't recall offhand where the organ ended up. Anyway, it *seems* like they would have had to have used at least 5 tracks for the YS remix. Which means there's a take Lewisohn didn't account for.


I was listening to the original mix and I heard the lead vocals on either side were blended with backing vocals. What I don't get is...we have a live session tape of them overdubbing the backing vocals only...I can't remember if there is leakage of a lead vocal present from their headphones. There would have to have been another reduction mix there too to blend the lead and backing vocals together onto those two tracks. I don't know. It's all very confusing to me. Are you sure there aren't 4 Tracks of vocals on the YS Remix?

rivero
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Postby rivero » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:42 am

The more I listen to the Canadian RS, the more perplexed I become regarding the original mix. Previously, AHDN and BFS were given excellent sounding stereo mixes, but then suddenly, GM gets nostalgic and creates a 1962 sounding twin track mix. :roll: Go figure.

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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:02 am

JWB wrote:I was listening to the original mix and I heard the lead vocals on either side were blended with backing vocals. What I don't get is...we have a live session tape of them overdubbing the backing vocals only...I can't remember if there is leakage of a lead vocal present from their headphones. There would have to have been another reduction mix there too to blend the lead and backing vocals together onto those two tracks. I don't know. It's all very confusing to me. Are you sure there aren't 4 Tracks of vocals on the YS Remix?


Are they just doing the backing vocals? The copy I have (on Soul Sessions) doesn't have the actual overdubs, just the bits between the overdubs.

I'll re-listen, but I'm pretty sure on YS the vocals are panned left-center and right-center for the "solo" bits and then go wide left and right when the backing vox come in. I'm pretty sure George's vocals don't stay left-center and right-center when the backing comes in.

This is a trick they seemed to have used a lot on the YS and Anthology video remixes. On AYNIL the orchestra moves around depending on what's playing, despite it only being recorded on one track (as far as I know). On It Won't Be Long (on the Anthology video) Paul's "yeah!" responses are panned differently than the rest of the vocals.

Back to Think For Yourself, I think there would have had to have been about 2 or 3 reduction mixes for the lead and backing vocals to have been recorded separately. There would never have been 4 open tracks at one point for the vocals, and the two lead vocal tracks were kept separate through the end.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:06 am

rivero wrote:The more I listen to the Canadian RS, the more perplexed I become regarding the original mix. Previously, AHDN and BFS were given excellent sounding stereo mixes, but then suddenly, GM gets nostalgic and creates a 1962 sounding twin track mix. :roll: Go figure.


The story I've heard is that he wanted it to sound good in mono, for people who bought the stereo LP but only had mono equipment. Like the vocal balance would be totally off in mono or something...

What's most strange is that only some of the double-track vocals were split. Think For Yourself and The Word were, but You Won't See Me has both lead vocal tracks right. Go figure indeed.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Lance Hall
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Postby Lance Hall » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:57 pm

Re: Yellow Sub Songtrack mixes...

I think they cheated some and would copy bits of vocals from other similar points in the song and paste them in to get a better separation.

I did the same thing with the intro vocal bit on my Beatles "From Me To You" remix. I copied the 2nd half of the intro bit and synced with the 1st half to get a true stereo split on the intro vocals.