Canadian Beatles CDs

[Andreas]

Thing is, this really throws a wrench into the EVERYTHING IS EXACTLY THE SAME WORLDWIDE, PERIOD canard. If this could happen in Canada, surely it isn't beyond the pale that some other transfer/mastering attempt of Beatles for Sale might have shown up somewhere, right?

For example: Later Japanese Abbey Road CDs could have the black triangle mastering...impossible?

[Xenu]

Probably. Why would anybody send Canada that digital tape?

[MK]

Canada's got their own masters, don't they? They're not considered a 'major' market, are they? Plus if it really did take them 2-3 years to press their own, there would be 'less' scrutiny (especially with other plants already in production).

With all these factors in mind, couldn't someone/some people in Canada say, "fuck this shit, we want the original mixes" and just pull their own dupes?

[lukpac]

Canada's got their own masters, don't they? They're not considered a 'major' market, are they? Plus if it really did take them 2-3 years to press their own, there would be 'less' scrutiny (especially with other plants already in production).

With all these factors in mind, couldn't someone/some people in Canada say, "fuck this shit, we want the original mixes" and just pull their own dupes?

It's unlikely they ever had their own dupes - AFAIK they never issued the UK lineups of Help or Rubber Soul. They would have had to compile things from several different tapes for each album. And that doesn't look possible either, since that false start isn't there on I'm Looking Through You, and I'm assuming The Word is the UK mix.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

I have a question. Are the 1987 remixes really that bad? I know they are *different* -- and everyone seems to hate them just because of that, but I've never read a coherent rebuke concerning these remixes. All I ever encounter are knee-jerk "they're messing with history!!!" and/or "OMG! Digital reverb on Lennon's vocal" or "the POP is missing on such-and-such a track!"

I've never owned these on CD, but I have heard them in casual settings and they didn't sound terrible to me. In fact, I never could stand the laughable Rubber Soul stereo mix on the German vinyl I had all those years ago. Questionable historical "accuracy" aside, it's a good idea to center things on that particular record.

As I said, I've never really scrutinized the (remixed) Rubber Soul and Help CDs. From what I have heard, they don't sound bad (at least no worse than any other Beatles CD). I couldn't care less if there's some added echo on a vocal or two (nor do I care if said echo is -- gasp! -- digitally generated; if it is, well, so what?)

Well, what do you think? What is the real problem with these? Is it merely the fact that they are remixes? Are the remixes really that shitty?

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

Actually, the only real problem I have with the Rubber Soul remix is that Martin went to such great lengths to duplicate the original, shitty stereo mix. If he'd centered the vocals and created a more coherent stereo spread, it would be much more impressive.

Still, all things considered, it doesn't sound any *worse* to me than the original version.

[lukpac]

I have a question. Are the 1987 remixes really that bad? I know they are *different* -- and everyone seems to hate them just because of that, but I've never read a coherent rebuke concerning these remixes. All I ever encounter are knee-jerk "they're messing with history!!!" and/or "OMG! Digital reverb on Lennon's vocal" or "the POP is missing on such-and-such a track!"

A few weeks ago I got an LP copy of Rubber Soul, and decided to compare it to the CD. I was actually expecting the CD to sound pretty good. Surprisingly (to me, anyway) it was a lot worse than I had expected. Ignoring the stuff like the echo and feel (Drive My Car has some life on the original - it just "sits" there on the remix), the remix just sounds very thin and unnatural. You Won't See Me in particular sounds pretty bad on the original mix, but sounds even more thin and harsh on the remix. It's not the best analogy, but on the original mix (especially the vocals) it sounds like you're listening to the Beatles, while on the remix it sounds like you're listening to a recording of them.

I could put some clips together if anyone was interested.

The left-right balance was pretty odd on the original, but it isn't much better on the remix.

I haven't compared Help lately, although I have compared the title track, and again prefer the original mix for many of the same reasons.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

I did a brief experiment (but I got quickly bored listening to Beatles music) a little while back: level match the same track from 3 different sources -- 1987 CD, Capitol Box Vol. 1 and the vaunted EP box (yeah, I downloaded FLACs; you didn't think I'd buy this shit, do you???).....

You know what? If you level-match all three sources, none of them really sound all *that* different. There's nothing wrong with the 1987 CDs, and the EP box is not some sonic Holy Grail. The only real revelation is how shitty the original recordings really are. It's obvious that the 1987 discs are faithful approximations of what's on the master tape. I guess Beatles fans don't want to know how crappy and dull the productions actually are. (The Capitol box seems to prove that the only thing that can be done with these tapes to make them sound, um, "better" is to jack up the high end.)

(I have nothing against so-called *bad* recordings; I've said before that Joe Meek productions or Andrew Loog Oldham's Stones recordings have plenty of exciting, kinetic atmosphere, whereas George Martin's work is gutless and dull as ditchwater. He was actually a mediocre, workaday producer, really.)

Ah, but I'm sure there's someone out there ready to tell me that the original Pakistani Parlophones blow away digital bits blah-blah-blah............

[lukpac]

You're talking about the mono mixes?

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

Yeah, the mono mixes. I was mostly listening to With the Beatles and Beatles for Sale-associated tracks. I maintain that the Capitol Box is the worst-sounding of the lot, just because that top-end is fucking annoying. Plus it sounds more, ah, processed somehow.

Seriously, compare identical tracks from the EP box and the 1987 Beatles for Sale. It's truly a mystery to me why the EP box is considered a sonic gem and the Beatles for Sale CD is considered to be a sonic mess, because, truth be told, soundwise, the differences are miniscule.

[lukpac]

I compared a couple of BFS tracks a few weeks ago, and I actually thought the Capitol box sounded a bit better *in spite of* the EQ. I could be wrong, but it seemed like there was simply high end missing on the 1987 CD that went beyond EQ differences. Or my mind is just playing tricks on me.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

That's one great thing about iTunes. You can level-match easily and play things* with no lags or disc-changing whatsoever. A lot of things I used to think sounded dramatically different quickly reveal themselves to be more alike than anything else. Of course, some things do sound measurably "better" (Roxy Music remasters, anyone?), but digital Beatles? Not really; not much.


*Yes, it's all digitally pumped to a DAC into a "real" hi-fi setup; no, I won't fill out an "equipment profile" or provide penis dimensions.

[lukpac]

Here it's two similar CD players (one which has an adjustable output), sync'd and switching back and forth in real time.

[czeskleba]

I have a question. Are the 1987 remixes really that bad? I know they are *different* -- and everyone seems to hate them just because of that, but I've never read a coherent rebuke concerning these remixes.

The primary thing I notice is less prominent bass, particularly on Norwegian Wood, You Won't See Me, and If I Needed Someone. Beyond that, my attention to detail isn't sufficient to note specifics, it's more a matter that it "feels" different. And I fully admit that my preference for the older mix may be in large part because I'm used to it, rather than because of any inherent superiority.

It is interesting that these two Canadian CDs have become a Holy Grail, but if they were readily available people would be complaining about how poorly they were mastered. I imagine we're all hoping that Rubber Soul being auctioned on ebay right now (current price $62) turns out to be the remixed version.

[MK]

Dammit, I wish someone would just up it on oink.

Seriously though, the stereo mix for RS sucks so bad, even if all CD issues were never remixed, I doubt I'd favor it over the mono mix I have now.