Beatles Capitol albums vol. 2?

[Andreas]

The point of it is to reissue the US albums.

I wonder who would have been offended if they substituted the proper UK mono mixes for those songs that were fold-downs originally.

[lukpac]

I wonder who would have been offended if they substituted the proper UK mono mixes for those songs that were fold-downs originally.

Someone I'm sure.

It's a bit of a slippery slope I guess. What do you make different and what do you keep the same? These aren't designed to be "definitive" versions of the Beatles on CD - they are simply reissues of the original albums. Same track lineups, same art, same tapes, etc.

As Ryan pointed out, what would be the point of putting out these US albums only to use the UK tapes?

I consider these historical documents, nothing more. We're just lucky that for the most part they happen to sound really good (or at least can).

[MK]

Yeah, if you're gonna put out a worthless project like the U.S. albums, might as well be straight with it. Remember, it's for nostalgia junkies, so I'd package them and master them just like the original pieces of worthless vinyl.

Of course, I'd reissue the UK versions FIRST.

BTW, I found another set of MFSL dubs and compared a few samples with the ones made by Dr. Ebbetts. I also compared them to other non-MFSL dubs made by Ebbetts (namely the mono albums...yeah, it's a different set of mixes, but I'm only checking for sibilance) and the official stereo CD's. With these MFSL dubs, there's definitely sibilance going on, on both sets of dubs, but I don't think it's the transfers, I think it's the MFSL vinyl. I eased the supposed treble spike, taking out 4 dB at 10k, but compared to the smooth sounding mono mixes, the sibilance is still prominent. Not too bad, in all honesty, but it's there.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

I think it is pointless to issue fold-downs (or duophonic mixes) on CD when dedicated mono mixes (or stereo mixes) exist. It didn't make sense originally, and it doesn't makes sense now.

I am all for nostalgia, but it should not be the top priority. Most people heard Pet Sounds in duophonic originally. I don't hear that people want that one released on CD.

You said that you enjoyed the My Generation LP reissue because it uses the UK master tape. Wouldn't you agree that the very first US CD (the fake stereo version) is pointless? But yet, that's the one that is faithful to the original US LP. Should that CD be reissued?

PS: There is some misunderstanding involved in discussions like that.
Supposedly implied statement #1: "You are nuts if you buy enjoy this release. You should be ashamed of yourself if you fall for such a rip-off."
Supposedly implied statement #2: "You are nuts if you don't buy this release. You should be ashamed if you pass on it."
Many posters react as if they had to respond to #1 or #2.

Agreed. Many people also "grew up" riding around in Ford Pintos. Perhaps Ford can bring the Pinto back -- à la the VW Beetle -- but, please, for nostalgia's sake and "historical accuracy," the New Pinto better explode when it is lightly bumped in the rear. They should also bring back the lead paint so many of us grew up with.....

There's a deeper and more serious question here, and that is the fallacy of the "definitive facsimile." If these were vinyl repros, I could somewhat see the point in these arguments (however petty and irrelevant the entire exercise seems to me; as if the idealized Platonist Form exists anyway). But to clamor for "accurate" repros -- senseless repros on a completely different medium (yes, things do progress over the course of 40 years), and then whine about them when they are not "perfect" just strikes me as outright ludicrous.

These are not "historical documents." Rather, they are digitized and miniaturized facsimiles of 40 year-old documents. If that gets your rocks off, fine, but let's name these for what they really are.

I first heard many albums on wonderful recycled 1970s US vinyl. Maybe I should complain because the current CD of Sticky Fingers is NOTHING LIKE the vinyl I grew up with. Hey, where's all the surface noise and the crater on side 2 that the zipper created? You think I'm being (too) facetious, and yet....

Proof: The SHites are now calling for blood because (I kid you not) two of the discs in this set allegedly contain NEWLY CREATED FOLD-DOWNS instead of the "correct" VINTAGE FOLD-DOWNS -- never mind that both come from the very same stereo masters. Wow! That's a new one: the sublime magic of vintage fold-downs. Surely there are better things in life to get worked up about than....this.

Now, am I the only one who just finds it slightly surreal that the nostalgia market is such a transparent house of cards? Just what is sacrosanct about these (or any) particular albums? Oh, yes, please give us shitty-sounding, 23 minute-long butchered albums at 18 bucks a pop.... All albums are merely products of the technology of the time; just because someone randomly slapped together a handful of songs to fill up two vinyl sides in 1965 isn't in itself a valid reason to revisit/recreate said "product," is it? (Yes, I know that Capitol skimped on filling up each side.) Pandering to childhood memories -- "This is the way it was; this is what you grew up with!" -- is as cynical as it gets.

But then Capitol knows their market. Beatle fans will buy anything; never mind that their purchases invariably will consist of the same songs they've heard zillions of times. Or they will shell out inflated sums of money for a singles or EP facsimile box, the songs of which could in reality fit on 2 or 3 serviceable (and cheaper) discs instead of 15 or 20. I'm not naïve; you don't have to tell me that the entire reissue market is about squeezing as much blood as many times from a stone as is possible. No one is forcing anyone to buy any of this stuff, true enough.

As for "definitive" version of the Beatles' (or anyone else's) oeuvre, why not offer their complete recorded works as a cheap download? (In a perfect world, the copyright on this stuff ought to have lapsed some years ago.) Have every track in a playlist, do what you want with it. Play the tracks in any order you want, create your own albums -- 10 minute ones or 300 minute ones, create the running order of that rare Singapore-only configuration from 1964 if that strikes your fancy. Instruct the program to always skip "The Fool on the Hill" and "Don't Pass Me By". Or tell it to play only those tracks 400 times in a row. Whatever; you've got the power. It's up to you. Even delete the songs you hate. Why not? There's no cosmic law that says you have to listen to any of this in the arbitrary order it was originally set down in vinyl some 40-odd years ago. Given the prevalent technology today, an idea like this would make sense; shrunken facsimiles of old albums DOES NOT.

[lukpac]

Of course, I'd reissue the UK versions FIRST.

Me too. And if Capitol could, they probably would. But they can't make that decision.

Of course, there's also the issue of what UK reissues will sound like (perhaps in the next year or two). Yeah, I'll probably get them regardless, but if they are anything like what EMI has issued in the past 15 years, I really won't care very much.

[Rspaight]

Proof: The SHites are now calling for blood because (I kid you not) two of the discs in this set allegedly contain NEWLY CREATED FOLD-DOWNS instead of the "correct" VINTAGE FOLD-DOWNS -- never mind that both come from the very same stereo masters. Wow! That's a new one: the sublime magic of vintage fold-downs. Rolling Eyes Surely there are better things in life to get worked up about than....this.

My understanding was that the fold-downs were included instead of the original unique mono mixes, which do have a substantially different "feel" to them from either the stereo mixes or a fold-down of the stereo mix. A kind and generous soul gave me a mint mono Rubber Soul LP (UK tracklist), and those mixes "cohere" much better than the diffuse, somewhat gimmicky stereo mixes. If you don't like Rubber Soul, it's of course utterly irrelevant, but there you go.

The only reason I'd even consider getting these sets (and the reason I got the first one) was to have a decent-sounding version of the stereo mixes (where the UK CDs are mono) or the mono mixes (where the UK CDs are stereo). So to me, that is a significant difference.

Not worth calling for blood, sure, but I have no reason to even contemplate buying this thing if the mono mixes aren't there. For which I guess I should thank Capitol.

Just to make the whole thing even *more* convoluted, I believe that the "mono" tracks on the Capitol Help! are *supposed to be* fold-downs instead of the UK mono mixes. So that one's going to be borked even Rubber Soul and VI get fixed.

Like everyone else who isn't a hopeless nostalgist, I'd rather have a comprehensive UK-format reissue program.

Ryan

[lukpac]

Just to make the whole thing even *more* convoluted, I believe that the "mono" tracks on the Capitol Help! are *supposed to be* fold-downs instead of the UK mono mixes. So that one's going to be borked even Rubber Soul and VI get fixed.

The possible "issue" is creating a new fold down digitally for that (and Early Beatles) rather than the correct transfer from the mono (fold down) master. It isn't a huge deal either way, but at the same time, why even bother including a "digitally identical except its mono" transfer on the CDs?

At this point, though, nobody knows if this has been "fixed" or not.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

My understanding was that the fold-downs were included instead of the original unique mono mixes, which do have a substantially different "feel" to them from either the stereo mixes or a fold-down of the stereo mix. A kind and generous soul gave me a mint mono Rubber Soul LP (UK tracklist), and those mixes "cohere" much better than the diffuse, somewhat gimmicky stereo mixes. If you don't like Rubber Soul, it's of course utterly irrelevant, but there you go.

The only reason I'd even consider getting these sets (and the reason I got the first one) was to have a decent-sounding version of the stereo mixes (where the UK CDs are mono) or the mono mixes (where the UK CDs are stereo). So to me, that is a significant difference.

Not worth calling for blood, sure, but I have no reason to even contemplate buying this thing if the mono mixes aren't there. For which I guess I should thank Capitol.

Just to make the whole thing even *more* convoluted, I believe that the "mono" tracks on the Capitol Help! are *supposed to be* fold-downs instead of the UK mono mixes. So that one's going to be borked even Rubber Soul and VI get fixed.

Like everyone else who isn't a hopeless nostalgist, I'd rather have a comprehensive UK-format reissue program.

Ryan

You haven't dutifully slogged your way through all 900 pages over there. They are now bitching because (cue shrill hysteria) the problem affects all 4 discs!: the mono versions of The Early Beatles and Help are (allegedly) new fold-downs, as opposed to the vintage fold-downs. (The other two albums in the set did originally have dedicated mono mixes; these two albums were fold-downs back in the day). The new stink has to do with the fact that Capitol promised to correct the mono Rubber Soul and VI screw-ups, but (cue hysteric geezer voice again) "what about the modern fold-downs on the other two discs???!!! Alas, poor gramps. What a drag it is getting old.

[Rspaight]

They are now bitching because (cue shrill hysteria) the problem affects all 4 discs!: the mono versions of The Early Beatles and Help are (allegedly) new fold-downs, as opposed to the vintage fold-downs. (The other two albums in the set did originally have dedicated mono mixes; these two albums were fold-downs back in the day).

Oh, Jeebus. Never mind, then.

I only made it through 683 pages.

Ryan

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

If the cocksuckers are going to create new fold-downs , the least they could do is have them folded down by Brian Wilson.

Seriously, though, as long as Ted Jensen has preserved the tonality of the tape hiss, I'll crawl through broken glass to buy this thing.

[MK]

Let It Be...Nekkid, Crapitol Albums vol. 1, now vol. 2...

So what's the next crappy Beatles product? How about Rarities? People seem to forget how much it SUCKED when it came out...you know, a cheap knock-off of a crappy bootleg even the bootlegger admitted was crap (the guy found the film for the original butcher cover and wanted to print and sell it as an album, but he had to come up with a record first so he scraped together some half-assed shit and wallah, the blueprint for Rarities).

[Xenu]

Or Hollywood Bowl. Or ROCK 'n ROLL MUSIC!

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

The history of cruddy-ass Beatles exploitation LP's goes back much further than that. How about Hear the Beatles Tell All! and The Beatles Story? (The Pete Best comp Best of the Beatles doesn't count. That one's fucking hilarious.)

And, of course, let's not forget the timeless collection Love Songs or the utterly brilliant 20 Greatest Hits (with a butchered version of "Hey Jude," no less). Or how about 1962-1966, a 60-minute double LP released as a double CD (because it's more *ahem* authentic that way, no doubt).

I'm waiting for someone to resurrect the Vee Jay label, so that we'll finally see The Vee Jay Albums Vol. 1 featuring both versions of Introducing the Beatles, the two-fer-Tuesday classic The Beatles vs. the 4 Seasons, Jolly What! The Beatles and Frank Ifield on Stage, Songs, Pictures and Stories of the Fabulous Beatles and the EP Souvenir of Their Visit to America.

Anyway, I think I'm just going to skip The Capitol Albums Vol. 2 and wait anxiously for The Capitol Albums Vol. 3, which my inside source at Capitol tells me is going to be a real doozy. I just hope they remember to use the rare fold-down mono version of I'm Only Sleeping where Lennon whispers "I fucked Brian Epstein in the ass" just before the music kicks in. (This was only present on select mispressed copies of Yesterday...and Today with the paste-over trunk cover.)

[lukpac]

the utterly brilliant 20 Greatest Hits (with a butchered version of "Hey Jude," no less)

Aside from Hey Jude, that's actually a pretty good album. They finally used the true stereo mixes for a lot of those songs...

[krabapple]

and I was quite happy to see Past Masters I and II.

But then again, Beatle fandom alternately bores or perplexes the shit out of me. Love the band, hate the fans.